Poetics and Poetry Discussion


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  • Gulsher John (7/25/2014 11:39:00 AM) Post reply

    if i kill my PERSON
    with FALSE persona: a troll in disguise;
    what good it would bring?...
    nothing but an oblique smile
    that only mock myself.
    It's like a thunder of a galvanic storm,
    THAT brings only some empty clouds....
    and heap of dust.

  • Jefferson Carter (7/25/2014 11:31:00 AM) Post reply

    Here's " Metamorphosis, " the poem Tony Adah asked (below) Adam Snow to read and enjoy. " Away fritter, " " Bestowed with a bait, " " Deactivate from..., " " men's heart, " " truncate my metamorphosis, " man, oh, man, those are some truly goofy phrases, best explained by Tony's acquaintance with English as a second language? As I've asked non-native English speakers over and over, why, if English is your second language, do you insist on using it to compose incompetent verse? Write poetry in your first language, find a good EFL poet to help you translate, and then, maybe, just maybe, you'll have a competent poem. It's tough enough to write a good poem in one's first language. That is, if you think of poetry as an art form, not a species of masturbation.


    I am out of the cocoon,
    I will not away fritter this chance-
    Bestowed with a bait on my pen
    And my means to cartharsis
    I will be strong here
    Deactivate from a fledgling bard
    Thence a Muse of poetry
    I am a scion of the great Muses
    I am moving heavenward
    To touch the face of the great ones
    Here my voice
    Will calcify men's heart
    Over hills And valleys.
    And no growl
    From older lions will
    Ever truncate my metamorphosis
    On this platform
    I suppose a lion's den!

  • Jefferson Carter (7/25/2014 11:20:00 AM) Post reply

    Poemhumpers, management removed one of my observations about Thripp Dick. Amazing! Here's someone who spreads all over this site his paranoid toxins about Planned Parenthood, Maya Angelou, etc., and then gets upset about my reasoned responses! I suggest we all contact management the next time Thripp Dick stains these pages and ask them to remove his poison.

    Adam (Lamont?) , funny response! I love your satires of a callow youth pretending to care about poetry. Just for a moment, assuming you're NOT a persona, I'll ask you, where did I define POETRY?I defined verse, not poetry. You need to read better than you write.

    Again (I'm still pretending you're a real person) , your definition of poetry (and Tony Adah's definition too) sounds lewd, as if writing is a kind of masturbation for you, you know, relieving all that sexual/emotional pressure with your pencil instead of your hand. Adam (Lamont?) , yer so deliciously filthy! ! !

  • Professor Plum (7/25/2014 10:32:00 AM) Post reply | Read 4 replies

    Okay folks, here's my quarterly 'List of Best Poets and Versifiers on the Discussion Board'. Remember, I don't have time to read everything of everybody's stuff, so if you're not on here this time don't fret, you may be on next quarter.
    For some reason, this time I counted quantity as well as quality (I can do this, it's MY list) , and I did it because I like to see YOUR poetry on this page. Gets me going in the morning, and I mean this literally in some cases. Yep, a cup of coffee and a Richard Thripp post does it for me every time.
    For the movies, summer time is the 'Blockbuster Season' and there's no difference here in poetry land. Next quarter we get the serious 'Oscar' contenders, but this quarter we get explosions and massive climaxes (my apologies to Bluebird for this last statement, if she's still around) .

    The Summer Blockbuster Best List:
    5. Adam Snow- Let's face it, this guy has the rhythm of Gene Kelly, and if someone would get him a thesaurus for Christmas, he might move up to number one some day.
    4. Mike Acker- Considering quantity as well as quality, this guy's cream is rising to the top faster than Secretariat. Slowly (and I mean SLOWLY) getting better every day. Remember, he's only been writing poetry for two years (I think Keats was dead after two years of writing poetry) .
    3. Richard Thripp- Who incorporates mean, backstabbing, and violent politics into his writing better than Thripp?Nobody, but this is blockbuster season, remember?
    2. Jefferson Carter/Lamont Palmer- Tie. Period. Both are among my favorites at what they do. Jeff moves up on the strength of his recent poems 'An Apology to Wannabes', etc., and Palmer is just as solid as he always has been. Plus, I like to leave them 'tied' because it aggravates Carter.
    1. Madolyn Orwhatever- A fresh breath of countrified air. Cow pastures. Horse stalls. Funny and prolific. This chick has TONS of poems (quantity) and many are very good. The Blockbuster Season number one!

    Don't worry if you're not here, but post some more poems so I can wake up in the morning! Maybe in the fall you'll find yourself in Oscar contention.

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  • Sherrie Kolb Cassel (7/24/2014 9:39:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Famous Blue Raincoat

    Leonard Cohen

    It's four in the morning, the end of december
    I'm writing you now just to see if you're better
    New york is cold, but I like where I'm living
    There's music on clinton street all through the evening.

    I hear that you're building your little house deep in the desert
    You're living for nothing now, I hope you're keeping some kind of record.

    Yes, and jane came by with a lock of your hair
    She said that you gave it to her
    That night that you planned to go clear
    Did you ever go clear?

    Ah, the last time we saw you you looked so much older
    Your famous blue raincoat was torn at the shoulder
    You'd been to the station to meet every train
    And you came home without lili marlene

    And you treated my woman to a flake of your life
    And when she came back she was nobody's wife.

    Well I see you there with the rose in your teeth
    One more thin gypsy thief
    Well I see jane's awake -

    She sends her regards.
    And what can I tell you my brother, my killer
    What can I possibly say?
    I guess that I miss you, I guess I forgive you
    I'm glad you stood in my way.

    If you ever come by here, for jane or for me
    Your enemy is sleeping, and his woman is free.

    Yes, and thanks, for the trouble you took from her eyes
    I thought it was there for good so I never tried.

    And jane came by with a lock of your hair
    She said that you gave it to her
    That night that you planned to go clear

    - sincerely, l. cohen


    **************************************************
    For those who really read poetry, what are your thoughts on Gerald Stern?

    Replies for this message:
    • Professor Plum (7/26/2014 7:39:00 AM) Post reply

      I love this guy. I put him right behind Mitchell, Dylan, and Lennon. Why is it lyricists can rhyme (no problem) , but if a regular poet does it they're looked down upon?I say UP with rhyme! I have n ... more

  • Mandolyn ... (7/24/2014 9:18:00 PM) Post reply

    Why can't everyone just love everyone!
    We are all mixed nuts in a big fat can from Costco
    near the back of the shelf nobody has touched since 2002.
    Do we expire?
    HELL NO!

    Group hug. Now.
    Do it fools!

  • Adam M. Snow (7/24/2014 8:28:00 PM) Post reply | Read 4 replies

    Carter, you say that you have no definition for poety. A true poet has their own definition of what poetry means. To me, poetry means an expression to free oneself emotionally and physically. It's where you can take your emotions and pour them out and bring peace to your physical being. You say you have no definition for poety, yet you gave a definition. Is that the definition from the dictionary you gave?If that's that case, have you not seen 'Dead Poet Society?' In it, they ripped the page that had the definition of poetry out of their textbook and threw that page away. Why?Because no textbook could tell you what poetry truly mean but you. If you can't find your definition for poety, then you are not a true poet. In order to be a poet, you first need to understand what poetry means to you. I know what poetry means to me, it's obvious you don't know what poetry means to yourself and therefore you are not a true poet.

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    • Tony Adah (7/24/2014 10:42:00 PM) Post reply

      Snow, I have had my own encounter with this megalomaniac called Carter. He thinks he should be the only cock to crow here. The sole provider of ground rules! I know how most times poetry unburdens my ... more

    • Tony Adah (7/24/2014 10:42:00 PM) Post reply

      Snow, I have had my own encounter with this megalomaniac called Carter. He thinks he should be the only cock to crow here. The sole provider of ground rules! I know how most times poetry unburdens my ... more

    • Tony Adah (7/24/2014 10:38:00 PM) Post reply

      Snow, I have had my own encounter with this megalomaniac called Carter. He thinks he should be the only cock to crow here. The sole provider of ground rules! I know how most times poetry unburdens my ... more

    • Frank Ovid (7/24/2014 9:27:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      I wonder what would happen if Thripp and ... more

  • Jefferson Carter (7/23/2014 1:43:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    Gulsher, the noun " poetics" simply means the study of verse. The adjective " poetic" (musical, profound, etc.) is the one we need to focus on. If the noun " poetry" means something wonderful, which it does in every definition I've ever read, then there's no such thing as BAD poetry. That's why the neutral term " verse" is much more useful for discussions of artistic quality. Saying Adam Snow's writing is bad VERSE makes a lot more sense than Adam Snow's writing is not POETRY. It is poetry, just really poor poetry. Lamont is horrified, thinking I believe any text chopped into lines is poetry; I believe any text chopped into lines is verse. Whether it's poetic verse or not is another matter. Clarifying these terms seems crucial to me; Lamont thinks saying THAT IS POETRY is actually saying something meaningful; it's not.

    Replies for this message:
    • Professor Plum (7/24/2014 11:45:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      Just to show what a sticky concept it is, Dr. Carter contradicts himself when he says, " ...It is poetry, just really poor poetry." I thought you just said that poetry was (only) " mus ... more

    • Tony Adah (7/24/2014 11:01:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      Jefferson, mine is to know if one can from your definition of poetry And the derived conclusion of 'no such thing as bad poetry' say so for a poem? I will be glad to have you talk on this.

  • Jefferson Carter (7/23/2014 11:28:00 AM) Post reply

    Poemhumpers, looks like Colin removed his ad for his new " book" of poems. I didn't mean to be overly harsh in my post about it (below) , but self-publishing truly has ruined the chances for good poets to find enthusiastic customers. I realize how lucky I am to have an editor (Charles Alexander of Chax Press; check out his website at chax.org) for " Get Serious, " my new and selected, but I'd never self-publish my work. It's just too bush league.

    " Colin, I read some of your posted poems. They're not very good. Here's the problem with e-publishing one's own work—there's no editor to judge the quality of one's poems, just the poet's own biased ego. Everyone has a book out now; that's why you'll see the look of terror in your potential customer's eyes when you say " Hey, I got a book of poetry for sale...." The spread of self-publishing has just made it tougher for good poets to sell their books. Oh, well, I suppose unfounded self-esteem is better than well-founded self-hate?"

  • Jefferson Carter (7/22/2014 3:39:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    Here's Lamont being an unbiased, thoughtful critic: " Your silly, lazy, and shamelessly self-serving definition of poetry (everything's a poem if its broken up into lines) is rejected by most poets in practice, even if not in theory." Most poets I know get gassy when defining poetry, and NO ONE has ever devised a widely-accepted definition. When I beat that dead horse of prose/poetry, I'm trying to clear away some theoretical underbrush, so I'll never have to hear another poet/critic say, THAT isn't poetry.
    Everything is VERSE if it's broken into lines; otherwise, it's prose. Simple, eh? Lamont insists on confusing the neutral noun " poetry" with the approving adjective " poetic"
    and the neutral noun " prose" with the derogatory adjective " prosaic." What a mess. AND, I'd like to add, anyone who can something poetic in Adam Snow's verse should finish that GED he abandoned years ago.

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    • Gulsher John (7/22/2014 10:44:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      Actually the concept of line breaking, verse and these two pregnant WORDs- poetry and poetics-are causing lil bit confusion for most of us(even myself, before intimacy with Mr Carter's writings) uns ... more

    • Professor Plum (7/22/2014 7:34:00 PM) Post reply

      Let's go ahead and put this to rest. No one is arguing " verse" and " prose" . It's the terms " poetic" or " poetry" that are causing the ruffle. What makes for ... more

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