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Poetics and Poetry Discussion

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  • Lenchen Elf (3/18/2005 5:07:00 PM) Post reply Stage

    H. I believe society, thought and states of being are far richer for diversity. My earlier comment was in relation to specific and repeated targeting of low scores as a weapon, rather than as a numerical comment on the quality or appreciation of an individuals work.
    As long as a scoring system of any kind is in place here, it is perfectly valid for someone to express like/dislike on the scale available.
    Earlier in this discussion a comment was made on mutual respect being of paramount importance, I would add tolerance of others difference and an willingness to appreciate what each individual is trying to attempt in their work.
    There is more than one way of life.

  • Herbert Nehrlich1 (3/18/2005 4:41:00 PM) Post reply Stage

    The simple act of giving out a one, in the context of what we have been discussing (please pay attention) is the product of simple minds incapable of much more than antisocial behaviour.
    Public flogging would be the appropriate answer, although I don't know about political correctness. That in itself is on my list of undesirables in society.
    I do like Dijon, it contains no sugar or other sweeteners and it is simple, but straight forward.

  • Herbert Nehrlich1 (3/18/2005 4:35:00 PM) Post reply Stage

    I think it comes down to what Lenchen said. Until one has personally experienced receiving ones one will be somewhat indifferent about it.
    What I find (almost) amusing is that my few German poems attract a one (or more) within minutes of posting. These worms must not only be fluent in languages but also speedreaders.
    As to exposing the names of the culprits I am all for it and this will come in due time.Public shame is an effective tool.I like Singapore thinking.The Hound sees fascist tendencies in that, no doubt, perhaps combined with racism.
    The mention of the name of the management director in connection with this, though was misguided. For all you know we may have a detective of the modern police force working on the case, or the ghostbusters. Anyone wanting to know the first two names identified may contact me. I will not supply them though at this time. Yes, humour is what we all need a bigger dose of.
    We do have a wide variety of people on this site and it is, unfortunately, impossible to weed out all those who could be considered less than desirable elements. It's just like in society.

  • Herbert Nehrlich1 (3/18/2005 4:23:00 PM) Post reply Stage

    JA: '...a simple principal (sic) is at work...' ' unto others...'
    Nice thought, shame about the non-compliance.

  • Herbert Nehrlich1 (3/18/2005 4:20:00 PM) Post reply Stage

    PoetryHound, the very fact that you use the term 'if the privilege is being abused' tells me where you stand. Do you have eyes and ears or just a Hot-English-Mustard tongue?

  • Mary Nagy (3/18/2005 3:50:00 PM) Post reply Stage

    I completely agree. If everyone had this same standard...this would be wonderful. Unfortunately, when things are open to the deal with all kinds of people...not all are kind like we'd hope. I read poetry here with an interest to learn and enjoy other's work. If I don't enjoy their work, I just don't read it again.

  • Jeffrey Spahr-Summers (3/18/2005 3:41:00 PM) Post reply Stage

    As for me, a simple principal is at work....

    Do unto others as you would have done to yourself!

    Cultivate good Karma whenever possible!

  • Mary Nagy (3/18/2005 3:17:00 PM) Post reply Stage

    Just for the record.......I am NOT asking for 1's! ! ! ! ! ! ! :))))) I only meant that I won't get mad at people that honestly don't like my poems. Of course we all prefer 10's. I just had to make that clear: :))

  • Mary Nagy (3/18/2005 3:12:00 PM) Post reply Stage

    I just have to say....if anyone reading my poetry truly feels it deserves a 1.....they should give it a 1. The scale set to 'rate' our poems is based on the 'opinion' of others BUT, that's all it is....their opinion. I surely like it better when people like what I write but I don't think they should be punished or have their names put out there as 'bad people' just because they may not like a certain poem and rated it a 1 (if that's how they viewed it.) Maybe I am just not experienced enough at poetry to take it more seriously but my poems are definately windows to my soul. I DO take it personal when they are rated low (and, yes, I have had a couple 1's that I didn't feel I deserved) but, I just figure the person reading the poem didn't 'get it'. Sometimes our poems are so personal it's hard for others to see our point. I don't mind the current rating system myself but why couldn't you have the rating and comment together so the comment along with the rating were both 'signed'? Maybe that would make people feel better....I don't think so though. I think you would have people angry at anyone not liking their poem and there would be even more revenge reading of other's work. I love this site and I enjoy sharing my poems with the people here. I've written for most of my life and have just recently started 'sharing' my work. This is the best site for poetry I have found yet! ! Sincerely, Mary

  • Robert Rorabeck (3/18/2005 12:43:00 PM) Post reply Stage

    I’ve had bomb raids of 1s on my poems too- I’ve seen it happen like a swarm of locusts with moral values coming in to destroy my crop. People have reigned down moral terror on my poems which they must see as racists, sexist, anti-American, non capitalistic, lukewarm, and possibly too frilly. I’ve come to accept this as a part of human nature and I refer anyone to my poem Energy Left Over to explain this philosophy. People have limits inside them which they may never cross, and for everyone there are many things beyond their grasp, just over the hill of their forehead which they will never see. I like to sit down with a fresh cup of coffee, crease my brow, and try real hard to think on what these things might be (Usually, however, my mind wanders back to the strange grounds of a beautiful woman.) This is in part the definition of being an independent liberal. A conservative would call for a vote or a priest. In some respects, it must be said, that some of what I write here is necessarily controversial (and would be more so if it were better): for, as I am inclined to write anything which comes to mind at the moment, I do not limit myself to being entirely politically correct. I would say that my writing process is in part a release of pent up anger and frustration built up over life, of dreams unfulfilled, and if anything which comes out of it is ugly, maybe more of it is on the page and less inside me.

    I would like to address the subject of Poetry Hound once again (my buddy Josh) who is obviously from one of the ten lost tribes (though I worry about giving the poor freshman anymore attention) . Poetry Hound has referred to more than one of my poems as being anti-Semitic. A few of my poems certainly seem to be, but they are only a product of living with a Jewish women for 5 ½ years, dealing with her family, that fact that I too wasn’t Jewish, and why I didn’t have a nicer car or shave more. So, when my poems attack the materialism of certain cultures, they are in their own way fighting back and trying to call attention to the problem areas, as I see them. I would have become Jewish if things had worked out. In addition, I like to imagine that if I had been placed in the atrocious condition of Nazi Germany, my relative freedom of thought would have enabled me to save lives instead of destroy them. I’m 1/64 Jewish (no more no less) and the most important teacher of my life is Jewish. He told me to stay in school and tough it out when she left (Incidentally, he was smart and married a Catholic. I’d like to marry one of those.)

    In conclusion, I’d like to think that my poems are first and foremost for freedom of thought: free flowing, wild and crazy thought without social limitations which comes from the most basic portion inside us, the part which has been touched and fondled the least by other people, the part that is still beautiful and mostly your own. As to people who give me ones based more upon their social conditioning than their actual evaluation of a poem’s merit, I would like to say to them, thanks: you’ve shown me that I’ve achieved what I’ve set out to do. I’ve gone beyond the borders set for my mind by society and culture and recognized a social condition which I do not like, a condition which you are subject to and probably will be for life, as you can not see beyond your situation. If it were Nazi Germany, you would do what you were told and like it- If someone told you pink was brown enough times, you’d say, yes, it is brown. By giving me 1s you are emboldening me to write more along the same lines.

    Certainly, by the very act of writing in an established language, every one of us is writing with preconceived notions of the nature of life inherit in the language which we write in. Our thought is constructed through our language and there is very little way of escaping it entirely. We are only able to express ourselves by the spoken and written words given to us. We think, interact, and understand the world through these words. I like to believe and I understand good poetry to be in part a break from tradition language and thought. By combining known words together in unusual ways and unusual forms, poets attempt to recognize thoughts and ideas beyond the borders of average language and average society. This is why poets are considered to be the antennae for their society: they are looking beyond what they’ve been given. Paradoxically, they are looking back through to the origins of their birth to a place with many definitions and possibilities, one interpretation of which is Plato’s Realm of Ultimate Form. Poets are looking for truth, individual, cultural, and universal, and the most important thing a poet does is helps another recognize a new truth for first time, which on the big scale causes a great reevaluation: social change, thought change, new dictionaries, and peaceful revolution.

    Note: The writer would like to apologize for the length and pomposity of this post: He’s gone off on a tangent and most likely won’t be back until Wednesday of next week.

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