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Poetics and Poetry Discussion


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  • kenneth william snow (5/23/2005 3:47:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    If I may interrupt the Erwin Allan show for a moment: Is it right for this website to post the following excerpt from William Carlos Williams 'Spring and All' and leave the uninformed reader with the impression that this is the poem in its entirety? Just wondering.

    kenneth

    Spring and All


    By the road to the contagious hospital
    under the surge of the blue
    mottled clouds driven from the
    northeast - a cold wind. Beyond, the
    waste of broad, muddy fields
    brown with dried weeds, standing and fallen

    patches of standing water
    the scattering of tall trees

    All along the road the reddish
    purplish, forked, upstanding, twiggy
    stuff of bushes and small trees
    with dead, brown leaves under them
    leafless vines -

    Lifeless in appearance, sluggish
    dazed spring approaches -

    They enter the new world naked,
    cold, uncertain of all
    save that they enter. All about them
    the cold, familiar wind -

    Now the grass, tomorrow
    the stiff curl of wildcarrot leaf

    One by one objects are defined -
    It quickens: clarity, outline of leaf

    But now the stark dignity of
    entrance - Still, the profound change
    has come upon them: rooted they
    grip down and begin to awaken

    William Carlos Williams

    Replies for this message:
    • Poetry Hound (5/23/2005 8:43:00 AM) Post reply

      If readers are not informed that it's only an excerpt, then it's not right.

  • mother baxter (5/23/2005 3:24:00 AM) Post reply

    somebody been insulting my ancestors, i'll rip his english nuts out
    god he'll think he's charly nundah, he's a terrible poet real gutter material
    you english deport him to australia give the little cherry a game of leauge
    he'll put some value on his nuts then

  • Allan James Saywell (5/23/2005 1:50:00 AM) Post reply

    WHO HAS THE POWER, WHO HAS THE WEALTH WE DO WILDERBEAST YOUR JUST A LITTLE ISLAND
    PUNY LITTLE ISLAND

  • Allan James Saywell (5/22/2005 10:53:00 PM) Post reply

    ERWIN BAXTER NEVER HEARD OF YOU, DO YOU WRITE UNDER YOUR REAL NAME

  • Allan James Saywell (5/22/2005 8:23:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    english lesson for lamont, i dont ever post poems, not never

    Replies for this message:
    • Andy Konisberg (5/22/2005 10:19:00 PM) Post reply

      You're in no position to hand out English lessons, Al. You can only spell your own name because it's on a label sewn inside all your clothes.

  • Andy Konisberg (5/22/2005 1:41:00 PM) Post reply

    some interesting posts from earlier:

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    Lamont Palmer (5/22/2005 11: 56: 00 AM) Post reply

    Raynette, you said a MOUTHFUL. Finally someone gets me!

    #

    Raynette Eitel (5/22/2005 11: 52: 00 AM) Post reply

    Sometimes prose can be musical. Check out As It Is In Heaven, a novel by Niall Williams (who seems to write in the language of a poet.) Also try Ava's Man, by pulitzer winning reporter, Rick Bragg. No doubt about the music in their prose. But then some so-called poets write in dull, empty phrases and, like the Emperor's New Clothes, they have a following who think they can see the poetry in it. It isn't a matter of the new poetry and the old poetry. It is a matter of knowing the craft of poetry, it's intricacies and its mastery of language. A poet has a full pallete of words and paints his/her canvas with mastery. The musical flow of words comes from the soul as well as knowledge of the way words and phrases flow musically. Sharon needs to read more masters before she throws words at the paper.

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    Lamont Palmer (5/22/2005 11: 11: 00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    When I talk of music I dont mean metaphor...they're 2 different things. Let me try to show what I mean by music. Which line is more musical? I'll keep it simple.

    A. I love you
    like I love the stars
    because the stars have
    a warm glow and you also
    have a warm glow which I feel
    when I'm close to you.

    B. I love you like I love the stars,
    they have a warm glow like you;
    I feel it when I'm close to you.

    You'd have to say B has better music. Why? Because its TIGHTER. I took out certain words. 'A' is more like prose. 'B' sounds more like poetry...albeit, cornball poetry but that isnt the point. Its tighter, thus sounding more musical. Now I'll sit back and wait to be either understood or torn to shreds. (smile)

  • Raynette Eitel (5/22/2005 11:52:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Sometimes prose can be musical. Check out As It Is In Heaven, a novel by Niall Williams (who seems to write in the language of a poet.) Also try Ava's Man, by pulitzer winning reporter, Rick Bragg. No doubt about the music in their prose. But then some so-called poets write in dull, empty phrases and, like the Emperor's New Clothes, they have a following who think they can see the poetry in it. It isn't a matter of the new poetry and the old poetry. It is a matter of knowing the craft of poetry, it's intricacies and its mastery of language. A poet has a full pallete of words and paints his/her canvas with mastery. The musical flow of words comes from the soul as well as knowledge of the way words and phrases flow musically. Sharon needs to read more masters before she throws words at the paper.

    Replies for this message:
  • Michael Shepherd (5/22/2005 10:08:00 AM) Post reply

    I love a bit of clever - but those who automatically criticize the 'elite' do raise the image of pots and kettles...? However, they do sharpen our our judgment. When Ken Tynan was Friday drama critic of the Evening Standard over here, thespian Sirs and Dames would be quaking in their buskins on Fridays...

    First time I read two putdowns in one phrase - 'He's not as good as the over-rated...' Double whammy.

  • Poetry Hound (5/22/2005 8:01:00 AM) Post reply

    Michael, we don’t need to invite Schneider to be a guest critic. We’ve already got Lamont, who is a secret Schneider emissary! ! ! But seriously, I don’t think Schneider is “a bit” of a curmudgeon. I think he’s a HUGE curmudgeon. He writes colorfully and I enjoy that, and it’s always fun to read a good rant. Even though I disagree with him about Sharon Olds, it’s amusing to read his harangue about her. I actually find it kind of funny – you’d think she dumped him as a boyfriend the way he’s so dismissive of her. But as I get older, I’m less attracted to blunt force trauma in either poetry or poetic criticism. I’m more attracted to subtlety and nuance. I don’t perceive Schneider being “kept on the fringes” of poetic criticism by “the powers that be.” That sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. If there truly are “powers that be” in poetic criticism, they sure are keeping quiet about it because I don’t even know who they are. I think Schneider is just one voice, a shrill one, but just one. And I imagine there are others like me who prefer more dimensionality in both the poetry and poetic criticism they read.

  • Michael Shepherd (5/22/2005 6:38:00 AM) Post reply

    (half an hour later, gasping...) wow, if you enjoy a good demolition job that goes into extra time (who's telling her she goes on too long, huh?) , then SnideySchneider's Twin Towers on Sharon Olds and her tiptoe reviewers is a Krispy Kreemy orgy of destruction. Now I know where you're coming from, Lamont.
    Does the guy love poetry so much that he hates it? Interesting thought. Dean Swift perhaps? Voltaire? I guess the Olds poem on this site are a charitable selection...
    The curious defect in Schneider is that his makeover versions are ineffective, for me. But I've just started reading wife Jessica on Plath, and for me she's a more creative destroyer, so to speak. Who suggested we invite Schneider as Poemhunter Guest Critic for a week...? Ouch.

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