Poetics and Poetry Discussion


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  • Herbert Nehrlich1 (9/16/2005 5:15:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    On the topic of language. How do you convince a person who writes poems in her native tongue and adds a translation into a language she has not at all mastered?
    It hurts my ears and gives me a toothache to have my native tongue so 'mutilated'.
    I have lived in the English speaking world for some time yet find that on many occasions I am at a loss of how to properly express a thought.So I know about the problem.
    Apparently she either does not or wants to give the impression to those who are not familiar with both languages that she is soooooo brilliant.
    This is not meant as an ad hominem barb by the way.
    Any ideas?
    H

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  • Max Reif (9/16/2005 3:29:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    Hunters & gatherers,

    I received an e-mail searching for the complete text of this old rhyme:

    My father use to recite a poem, but I only know a few lines....'The countries are few that i haven't been through...I sailed every sea on the map. I journeyed to Rome, called Cairo my home.'

    Anyone know? Any of you Brits, maybe?

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    • Michael Shepherd (9/16/2005 3:59:00 PM) Post reply

      or.. is it an old music-hall song, like My Old Dutch? Then it would be the verse before the chorus '..but there isn't a lye-dee (lady) in the whole wide world..' (voice quavers...)

    • Michael Shepherd (9/16/2005 3:39:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      Sorry. Max... it could be one of those poems that simply sing the praises of the old home at Little Shrinkingham... or it could be the first verse of one of those Rudyard Kipling poems that expand int ... more

  • Michael Shepherd (9/16/2005 5:55:00 AM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    I'd propose that there's a curious affinity between the careful, respectful use of words and that of money. Then charity takes its rightful place in both currencies.

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    • Michael Shepherd (9/16/2005 1:34:00 PM) Post reply

      I meant charity as in love-and-charity rather than 'organised' charities. One of the privileges of being retired on our miniscule state pension here (taxable of course...) is that one can instead give ... more

    • Poetry Hound (9/16/2005 9:43:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

      Charities are like any other kind of institution. Some are good and some are bad. Dismissing all, or even most of them, as being corrupt is ignorant.


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  • Laura Cummings (9/16/2005 4:35:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    New artist on the block people. Gaia Moore, kinda raw in a teenage way me thinks: P

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    • Poetry Hound (9/16/2005 5:43:00 AM) Post reply

      Seems like pretty standard cliche stuff - 'tied up in knots.' What do you find original about her?

  • Poetry Snob (aka Jefferson Carter) (9/15/2005 7:37:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Michael, I've logged on as Snob, pointlessly. To answer your question about my students attitude toward rhyme, it's the usual. Since they haven't read any contemporary poetry, they think Poe is the cat's pjs and Longfellow is a great poet. Once I've exposed them to such good poets as Kate Daniels, Marvin Bell, Gary Snyder, Marie Howe, etc., on their own they'll decide there's a lot more to poetry than rhyme. My mantra: rhyme's easy to do badly and hard to do well. JC

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    • Michael Shepherd (9/16/2005 5:48:00 AM) Post reply

      If they like Longfellow, have they read Lewis Carroll on Hiawatha's photography, in seven instalments? It's a riot and on this site...

  • Michael Shepherd (9/15/2005 11:22:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Invent a new language anyone can understand.

    Climb the Statue of Liberty.

    Reach for the unattainable.

    Kiss the mirror and write what you see and hear.

    Dance with wolves and count the stars, including the unseen.

    Be na•ve, innocent, uncynical, as if you had just landed on Earth (as indeed you have, as indeed wwe all have) , astonished by what you have fallen upon.

    Write living newspapers. Be a reporter from outerspace, filing dispatches to some supreme managing editor who believes in full disclosure and has a low tolerance for hot air.

    Read between the lines of human discourse.

    Avoid the provincial, go for the universal.

    Think subjectively, write objectively.

    Don’t bow down to critics who have not themselves written great masterpieces.

    Remember everything, forget nothing.

    Work on a frontier, if you can find one.

    Go to sea, or work near water, and paddle your own boat.

    Associate with thinking poets. They’re hard to find.

    Don’t be so open-minded that your brains fall out.

    Be a poet, not a huckster. Don’t cater, don’t pander, especially not to possible audiences, readers, editors or publishers.

    Come out of your closet. It’s dark in there.

    Be committed to something outside yourself. Be militant about it. Or ecstatic.

    To be a poet at 16 is to be 16, to be a poet at 40 is to be a poet. Be both.

    Thanks, Marcy...

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    • sheila knowles (9/15/2005 2:12:00 PM) Post reply

      and mine is definitely the second last one...passion for something. Where the hell is it gone? ?

  • Michael Shepherd (9/15/2005 11:07:00 AM) Post reply

    Marcy, Where does Ferlinghetti (who was my poetic discovery next after Yeats, Rilke, Eliot and Li Po, in my beat years and Coney Island of the Mind...) give this advice?

    The world of little people is highly specialised, and woe betide any who get the distinctions wrong.. there are trolls, gnomes, elves, goblins, pixies, leprechauns, and gremlins, for a start. Watch out.

  • Michael Shepherd (9/15/2005 6:51:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Sherrie, thanks for the comment, I've added a stanza to 'Rilke on Solitude' to clarify 'things' (which I believe has a more inclusive meaning in German to that in English, HN?) . It finishes rather nicely now, with a further mention of the poet as child...

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    • Herbert Nehrlich1 (9/15/2005 8:29:00 AM) Post reply

      It is far easier for a German to translate Rilke's poetry than it would be for a non-native speaker. Someone on this site has attempted a couple of translations of other poets...with disastrous resu ... more

  • Poetry Hound (9/15/2005 5:57:00 AM) Post reply

    Thanks for the recent spate of poems posted here, Sherrie. I like getting turned on to new poets. That's a terrific poem you posted a little while back. But who is the author? And praytell, what does it have to do with Socialism?

  • Herbert Nehrlich1 (9/15/2005 5:36:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Thanks to all for their kind comments on my dental mention, I have since written another one (just posted) (Tooth Mobility) and will send it to the place for possible inclusion.
    I must say that I am really enjoying the new peace and 'professionalism' as well as the lighthearted banter and the general regard exhibited by most for others.
    It is a real pleasure again to visit P/H.
    And many of you can be very proud of bringing this about.
    Best wishes to all
    Herbert

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    • Max Reif (9/15/2005 7:54:00 AM) Post reply

      I have a dental piece too: 'Feeling the Bite'. Also, a short essay called 'Dental Topiary' on my website.

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