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Poetics and Poetry Discussion

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  • Rookie Herbert Nehrlich1 (9/30/2005 8:23:00 AM) Post reply | Read 4 replies
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    Although I am entirely cognizant of the facts of today's life in society, I will withdraw from the Dylan spectacle for the one reason that he promoted drugs.
    Anyone who uses drugs is no friend of mine and is not entitled to any of my time. No exceptions either.
    Best wishes

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    • Rookie Herbert Nehrlich1 (9/30/2005 7:14:00 PM) Post reply

      All of you are entitled to your opinions.Of course. The old argument about alcohol being a drug doesn't wash at all. There are even specific enzymes that every body produces to deal with alcohol AND ... more

    • Rookie Poetry Hound (9/30/2005 10:11:00 AM) Post reply

      Seems a little extreme to me, Herbert. By that standard, if one is against the use of drugs (just illegal ones, presumably) , does that mean one should not enjoy the writings of Baudelaire, Burroughs, ... more

    • Rookie Max Reif (9/30/2005 8:35:00 AM) Post reply

      I don't know that he promoted them. I consider drugs anathema and harmful, as well, Herbert. The thing is, in some cases a *consciousness* comes through that has nothing to do with drugs. Though a ... more

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  • Rookie Michael Shepherd (9/30/2005 6:42:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    wow, do I feel well informed now, Andy! I must have missed the Dylan=Lennon exchange, as I missed bits of both programmes. Thanks. I'd add Jacques Prevert even in translation to the honorable list and maybe you would consider some other French lyric-writers. And there are one or two lyricists for musicals whose names I don't know, and who had to write more fluently than song-writers - there's the lyricists of Carousel and Pal Joey for a great start. Did John O'Hara have something to do with Pal Joey or am I dreaming it? That's one that deserves a revival production...
    Anyway, thanks. You're a mine of information. Gold-dust gets in my eyes...

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    • Rookie Max Reif (9/30/2005 7:47:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      'Carousel' was Rodgers and Hammerstein, 'Pal Joey' was Rogers and Hart, I think. Was RIchard Rodgers the lyricist? One of the 'philosophical' questions I discussed with friends after we went away to ... more

  • Rookie - 7 Points Max Reif (9/29/2005 11:00:00 PM) Post reply


    Jacob tells me, and he's had experience, that if you want to participate, you should SEND ME YOUR NAME, and I'll enlist you in order and SEND THE LINE BEFORE YOUR STANZA to you!

    Let's do that, now. I'll TRY to fit in what already came. (I have 5 so far.) If I can't, I'll work with it then. SO...if you want to participate, express your intention in a message to my INBOX here at PH.

    from Wikopedia:
    Exquisite corpse is a method by which a collection of words or images are collectively assembled, the result being known as the exquisite corpse or cadavre exquis in French. It is a technique used by surrealists, and is based on an old parlour game called consequences in which players wrote in turn on a sheet of paper, folded it to conceal part of the writing, and then passed it to the next player for a further contribution.

  • Rookie - 7 Points Max Reif (9/29/2005 10:50:00 PM) Post reply

    SONG LYRICS: I don't think so many song lyrics qualify as true poetry. Dylan's do, Leonard Cohen's do, for me. No one else is coming to mind. EXCEPT...I wanted to ask whether people feel 'standards' by, say, Johnny Mercer or Gershwin-or Kurt Weill, do?
    'The very thought of you/and I forget to do/the little, ordinary things that everyone ought to do? ' I like that.
    But tried unsuccessfully to fall in love with 'Imagination', by Mercer:
    'Imagination is funny/it makes a cloudy day sunny/makes a bee think of honey/ just like I think of you..'
    That one never quite made it for me. A little too slick, too clever, not quite devoted enough to truth.
    Now, it may be that we should just call a moratorium on song lyrics altogether, and discuss only no-music poetry, as Poetry Hound, I mean Jefferson, suggests.

  • Rookie - 2 Points Michael Gessner (9/29/2005 9:42:00 PM) Post reply

    I agree with JC-or whomever he might be-one of his many selves. While there are similarities among song lyrics and poetry, and keeping in mind that narrative poetry was often sung, (e.g., 'The Iliad, ' & 'The Odyssey, ') there are significant differences, particularly between what has been traditionally considered 'durable' poetry, and lyrics meant (intended,) to be sung to music, and written so, (composed for this purpose.) Robert Allen Zimmerman, (a.k.a. Bobby D.,) knew this. When an interview asked him if he was a poet or a musician, he replied, 'I'm a song and dance man.' He had it right.

  • Rookie allan james saywell (9/29/2005 9:32:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    come on fellow poets lets get behind max with a few lines about the singer poet
    or max and i will combine our limited talents and produce a masterpiece
    you wouldn't like that would you, come on men and woman, the singer had talent
    he will be remembered as a poet and songwriter why dont we do it and post it to him let him know that poetry lives on, in the hearts and souls of human beings
    come on just because my name turns you on doesn't mean you have to turn your back on max who has a poetic heart, do you know that a group of artists started this craze, mister sheperd will tell you all about it, come on carter we want you to contribute as well(we want everybody who is a poet regardless of age)
    you can be a hundred or ten) well i'm off to the Teepee to have a puff

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  • Rookie Rev. Dr. A. Jacob Hassler (9/29/2005 10:26:00 AM) Post reply | Read 8 replies

    since we've been talking about Dylan, i thought i'd post the lyrics to 'Along Comes Mary' by the Association from 1965. i was always enthralled by the lyrics. and while it's a silly pop song, i really dig the arrangements of the rhymes and Russ Giguere fires them off like machine gun rounds in the recording, much like Dylan did at the time with 'Subterranean Homesick Blues'.

    for those who don't know, Mary isn't a girl. she's a drug. :)

    Along Comes Mary

    Every time I think that I'm the only one who's lonely
    Someone calls on me
    And every now and then I spend my time in rhyme and verse
    And curse those faults in me

    And then along comes Mary
    And does she want to give me kicks, and be my steady chick
    And give me pick of memories
    Or maybe rather gather tales of all the fails and tribulations
    No one ever sees

    When we met I was sure out to lunch
    Now my empty cup tastes as sweet as the punch

    When vague desire is the fire in the eyes of chicks
    Whose sickness is the games they play
    And when the masquerade is played and neighbor folks make jokes
    As who is most to blame today

    And then along comes Mary
    And does she want to set them free, and let them see reality
    From where she got her name
    And will they struggle much when told that such a tender touch as hers
    Will make them not the same

    When we met I was sure out to lunch
    Now my empty cup tastes as sweet as the punch

    And when the morning of the warning's passed, the gassed
    And flaccid kids are flung across the stars
    The psychodramas and the traumas gone
    The songs are left unsung and hung upon the scars

    And then along comes Mary
    And does she want to see the stains, the dead remains of all the pains
    She left the night before
    Or will their waking eyes reflect the lies, and make them
    Realize their urgent cry for sight no more

    When we met I was sure out to lunch
    Now my empty cup tastes as sweet as the punch

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  • Rookie - 7 Points Max Reif (9/29/2005 8:24:00 AM) Post reply | Read 6 replies

    What do poets eat?

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  • Rookie Michael Shepherd (9/29/2005 6:17:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Thinking back on that 'Judas' moment, which some commentators pass off as just a heckle, it could be the classical 'tragic fall' moment where character fails? 'Folk song' is by definition, the simple and pure-hearted singing to their ilk. 'Turning up the volume' is more than just that - it can be taken as auditory bullying; and conforming to current fashions of musical presentation is to run the risk of becoming - as one musician commented - 'show business' instead of 'show'. There's still a devoted minority (and proud of it, as non-commercial) audience over here for folk music. Eminem seems to be going through the same tricky crucial 'moment'. Last night we had his discoverer-producers congratulating themselves for becoming rich through his acceptance by the former 'ebonic-only' Detroiters...

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    • Rookie Max Reif (9/29/2005 8:24:00 AM) Post reply

      It has a lot of elements of a tragic fall. Looking at it from that perspective, the hero's only flaw, or hubris, I guess, is underestimating the almost infinite resistance of 'the public'. I can say t ... more

  • Rookie allan james saywell (9/29/2005 6:06:00 AM) Post reply

    is there a naughty poem on site i hope the granny association of America
    hasn't objected to my leaking granny, i will have to learn a different
    language to confuse them

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