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  • Rookie Allan James Saywell (11/9/2005 2:22:00 PM) Post reply
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    are you going to discimanate against the dead poets why cant they be on the list

  • Rookie Marcy Jarvis (11/9/2005 1:22:00 PM) Post reply | Read 5 replies

    Was Bukowski MARRIED to Jane? ? ? I mean, in the 'traditional' sense? ? ? I always thought she was his girlfriend.

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    • Rookie Allan James Saywell (11/9/2005 2:58:00 PM) Post reply

      well he could have had her name changed to his by deedpoll as in a common law marriage which is absolute in the eyes of any church and is the law of the land in most western countries idid the same th ... more

    • Rookie Marcy Jarvis (11/9/2005 2:27:00 PM) Post reply

      Jane died so young (suicide) that I don't think they would have had time to be married by common law (which last I checked, is seven years in the states where it still applies) . I honestly even was ... more

    • Rookie Rev. Dr. A. Jacob Hassler (11/9/2005 2:18:00 PM) Post reply

      come to think of it, i don't think Hunter Thompson was married in the literal sense to his last wife. i think it was more or less a common law thing.

    • Rookie Lori Boulard (11/9/2005 1:53:00 PM) Post reply

      You know, that's a very good question. I ... more

    • Rookie Poetry Hound (11/9/2005 1:38:00 PM) Post reply

      Oooh, nice dodge.

  • Rookie Michael Shepherd (11/9/2005 1:12:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    This isn't going to resolve the personal issues, but just to say, we're all quite brittle after 'pulling off' a poem that was a personal achievement towrite. I detest two sorts of comment: 'This is a hackneyed theme.' Well, so it might be, but it's the first time I tried to write on it, thanks...; and 'This poem could be shortened'. That's lazy criticism - say just where you would shorten it, or keep quiet...
    I like criticism like 'I'd be happy if you left out the last verse; you've made the point so well and movingly by the end of the verse before'; I'll take that on board.
    And on Poemhunter, criticism as from reader reaction, rather than critic reaction, is I think the best tone: someone's troubled enough to read it carefully as a poet, not an examiner or press reviewer or teacher; they've empathised. You should be grateful.
    Sometimes the passage complained of is what you think are the best lines - then the whole poem gets rewritten!
    Treat these offerings and the sweat and tears that went with them, as drafts, not competition entries!

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    • Rookie Michael Shepherd (11/9/2005 1:49:00 PM) Post reply

      yeah, PoHo, both of them your favourite comments, did you notice? My ego's still bleeding...


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  • Rookie Lori Boulard (11/9/2005 10:31:00 AM) Post reply | Read 7 replies

    I hate to break up this little love fest, but I want to updat all on the 'thing' (I'm tired of that other word) . Currently 30ish poets from 15yrs. old to 75 (still waiting for an OK from a very mature 13yr old who was interested) , covering N. America, Australia, Europe and Asia. It's SO EXCITING! Here they are alphabetically:

    PS Poem titles are shorthand, just so I can keep them straight. Be not afraid, they will be given the greatest care when going in!

    Adrienne Aversa: Autumn; David; the magic that you do
    David Nelson Bradsher: A Tentative Appointment; February 9,2001; Refrain
    Faith Elizabeth Brigham: We Do Not Write About
    Lori Boulard: And What Have I Done…; A Perfect Kiss
    Sally Clarke: Derelict; Enigma; Dolphins
    Ivy Cristou: A Letter from the Soul to the Mind
    Peter Crowther: Late Summer Migrants; White China Tea; Moon God
    Laura Cummings: The Best Laid Schemes o’ Mice and Men
    Raynette Eitel: Daja Vu; Melanoma Butterfly; Knowing Your Words
    Tiffany Etter: An 8 yr Old’s God; I Am Blonde; You, Yes, You
    Jace Gatzemeyer: Time Is An Ember
    Ulrike Gerbig: A Mod’s Dream; Call Me Lillith; By the Window
    Sherrie GK: Halloween, Party of One; Point of Origin; Purple Heart Survivor
    Uriah Hamilton: A Girl I Once Saw..., A Tender Reprieve, and Unrequited Love
    Jerry Hughes: Tomorrow; Sun Woman; For A Dancer
    Marcy Jarvis: What entrance! In; Un Petit Coeur Gourmand; Love Never Ages
    John Kay: Coasting Toward God; Controlled Poetry; On Her Way
    Mary Nagy: A Collision of Souls; The Path of Forgiveness; My Dream of Reality
    Herbert Nehrlich: A Starry Night; Behind The Old Mill; Rebels Fall
    Ernestine Northover: That One Kiss; My Head; One Way Love
    Nikhil Parekh: It Was a Female’s…; If You Cut a Tree; Titanic…
    Andrew Philips: Awakening of Life; Where Have All My Unicorns Gone
    Poetry Hound: three comments on Bob Gotti’s poems
    Max Reif: Metamorphosis; November Crossing Berkeley…; A Galaxy Past Gutenberg’s
    Alice Vedral Rivera: Fragments; Soul Work; Torment
    Ronberge: In Defense of the unPoet; All Part of the War…; Who Not Loved…
    Michael Sheperd: Diary of a Poem; Medieval English Cathedral; The Poet's Significant Other..
    G. Thompson: And We Kissed; The Oddest Places
    Vidyanjali: Passion; Beware…Globalization; Laughed At
    Simon Whild: The Feral Feline
    Mahnaz Zardoust-Ahari: Living Outside the Box; Long Rd Home; Sunrise on the Caspian Sea

    If we have room for others I will update.
    Thanks! !

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  • Rookie John Kay (11/9/2005 10:09:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Marcy,

    Where is all this anger toward me coming from. I only once suggested to you that dropping a couple of lines would improve one of your poems, and you went ballistic. If you look at the comments on the last poem I posted, 'Keine Stimme, ' you will see that several other poets made suggestions for improvement in their comments as well as others in personal emails. I'm grateful for suggestions that help me see what I can't see myself. I don't accuse any of them of 'telling everybody how to write their poems.' I would appreciate it if you would try to put some balance into your criticism of me. I really don't think it's fair or called for.

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    • Rookie Marcy Jarvis (11/9/2005 10:16:00 AM) Post reply

      If you'd like, I can post the insane messages you wrote me, John. Accusing me of being 'uptight', for one. I will say this, it's no surprise to me that you and J.C. went to the same school. He used ... more

  • Rookie - 7 Points Max Reif (11/9/2005 9:59:00 AM) Post reply | Read 4 replies

    Here's the Bukowski poem I couldn't stand! I just hate the spirit of it! (I'll check out the one Lori mentioned, later) :

    POETRY READINGS

    poetry readings have to be some of the saddest
    damned things ever,
    the gathering of the clansmen and clanladies,
    week after week, month after month, year
    after year,
    getting old together,
    reading on to tiny gatherings,
    still hoping their genius will be
    discovered,
    making tapes together, discs together,
    sweating for applause
    they read basically to and for
    each other,
    they can't find a New York publisher
    or one
    within miles,
    but they read on and on
    in the poetry holes of America,
    never daunted,
    never considering the possibility that
    their talent might be
    thin, almost invisible,
    they read on and on
    before their mothers, their sisters, their husbands,
    their wives, their friends, the other poets
    and the handful of idiots who have wandered
    in
    from nowhere.

    I am ashamed for them,
    I am ashamed that they have to bolster each other,
    I am ashamed for their lisping egos,
    their lack of guts.

    if these are our creators,
    please, please give me something else:

    a drunken plumber at a bowling alley,
    a prelim boy in a four rounder,
    a jock guiding his horse through along the
    rail,
    a bartender on last call,
    a waitress pouring me a coffee,
    a drunk sleeping in a deserted doorway,
    a dog munching a dry bone,
    an elephant's fart in a circus tent,
    a 6 p.m. freeway crush,
    the mailman telling a dirty joke

    anything
    anything
    but
    these.

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    • Rookie - 7 Points ***** ***** (11/9/2005 2:48:00 PM) Post reply

      I can see this event so clearly in my mind... and in my life so often. He hit it spot on. I was a Bukowski convert in my late teens and was diving head first into the Beat work until I heard Ginsber ... more

    • Rookie - 7 Points Michael Shepherd (11/9/2005 1:26:00 PM) Post reply

      It's a not uncommon sentiment among actors and other artists, though seldom voiced: especially 'matinee audiences': the artist has put so much into the work, that he/she wants to be appreciated at tha ... more

    • Rookie - 7 Points Joyce Milli (11/9/2005 12:54:00 PM) Post reply

      I read this poem w/ a recognition that felt both shameful and grateful. I have felt soooo guilty for secretly thinking those same thoughts and it is refreshing that someone gave those reactions (that ... more

    • Rookie - 7 Points Lori Boulard (11/9/2005 10:52:00 AM) Post reply

      c'mon, Max. You mean there's not one bi ... more

  • Rookie - 7 Points Max Reif (11/9/2005 9:17:00 AM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    I'll ask this in a new thread: Is there any compassion in Bukowski?

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    • Rookie - 7 Points Rev. Dr. A. Jacob Hassler (11/9/2005 10:10:00 AM) Post reply | Read 4 replies

      Bukowski strikes me as almost having had a journalistic approach toward poetry. he recalled and reported his observations in a manner that lacked compassion by any measurable degree. Buke seems to ... more

    • Rookie - 7 Points Lori Boulard (11/9/2005 9:38:00 AM) Post reply

      Max (and anyone) , check out Jane, With All My Love That Still Wasn't Enough (I think I got the title right) .

    • Rookie - 7 Points Lori Boulard (11/9/2005 9:36:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      yes, towards his wife Jane who put up with him and loved him as he was. Many of his most bitter poems were written after her death. As with most poets, knowing the circumstances behind their writing ... more

  • Rookie Rev. Dr. A. Jacob Hassler (11/9/2005 7:48:00 AM) Post reply | Read 8 replies

    hoyahoy, good friends! perhaps we have already had this debate (i can't recall) , but i have wondered: What about Bukowski? truly a poet visionary? did he carry the Torch for the Beats into the next century? or was he merely a drunk charlatan hack who lucked out and published a few things? thoughts? ideas? complaints?

    i enjoy Buke more as a novelist than a poet. he had a keen way of describing events and thoughts, usually using one to convey another. and he was funny as all hell. was he a genius? perhaps not. but who can say whether or not they'll be studying his writings in universities all over the world 100 years from now?

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    • Rookie Rev. Dr. A. Jacob Hassler (11/9/2005 9:54:00 AM) Post reply

      i asked because i've been noticing more and more college-aged poets cling to Bukowski's work tighter than a Baptist to the Bible. i've read some of Buke's poems at readings and such to warm the crowd ... more

    • Rookie Lamont Palmer (11/9/2005 9:37:00 AM) Post reply

      I enjoy Bukowski on a certain level. He was a very raw and honest poet and theres something carthartic about his work, but as an artist he was lazy and wrote alot of stuff that simply wasnt quality po ... more

    • Rookie Lori Boulard (11/9/2005 9:16:00 AM) Post reply

      oh, you're talking about my MAN! ! I love him and all his obnoxiousness as well. I agree with Ulrike, and whether or not his poems will change future generations I don't know, but I'll drink to him ... more

    • Rookie Michael Shepherd (11/9/2005 8:35:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      ... yawn... yes Jake. we did. we did. Hi ... more

    • Rookie Max Reif (11/9/2005 8:04:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      I haven't read a lot of his stuff, but o ... more


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  • Rookie Herbert Nehrlich1 (11/9/2005 4:06:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    A book recommendation for all women regardless of philosophy and those men who can take it, is (probably known to may) Clarissa Pinkola Estés 'Women Who Run With The Wolves'.
    It is not poetry but......
    Best
    H

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    • Rookie Max Reif (11/9/2005 8:11:00 AM) Post reply

      A-woooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! She's a good writer. She's a poet too.

  • Rookie Allan James Saywell (11/8/2005 8:47:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    THANK GOD YOUNG PEOPLE ARE SO INNOCENT I WROTE A POEM THIS MORNING ABOUT TARTS
    A YOUNG GIRL SUPPOSEDLY FIFTEEN SAID IT WAS A GREAT POEM ABOUT TARTS AND IT
    WAS ABOUT TARTS OF COURSE WE ALL KNOW THERE ARE MANY TARTS I'M JUST GLAD THAT SHE SAW A CHILDS TART AND NOT MY TART SHE EMAILED ME AND SAID SHE LIKES MY WORK
    THEN I THOUGHT TO MYSELF OH HELL I HOPE THAT MY POEMS DONT OFFEND ANYONE BUT
    AS POETS WE HAVE TO WRITE THE TRUTH AS WE SEE IT AND YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE TO BE OUR CRITICS AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO CAST JUDGMENT

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    • Rookie ***** ********* (11/9/2005 11:43:00 AM) Post reply

      I agree, to a degree, you little orstralian tinker (that's an English accent by the way! lol) I must remember however that there are kids on this site. At my previous haunt, I was kept away from un ... more

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