Poetics and Poetry Discussion


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  • Paul Butters (6/8/2014 5:05:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    How is a stanza any different from a paragraph?Ignore the 2 sentence paragraph rule and we are talking about blocks of writing. A verse is but a line of writing in which the writer decides the length (usually by counting syllables) . Surely poetry can be written in verse, prose, " concrete" or any form you choose.

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    • Gulsher John (6/8/2014 11:42:00 AM) Post reply

      Thats great u r an ex fellow of PH.. in a sense PROSE can be 'poetic', for example the work of Plato (english translation) and John Milton's Aeropagetica to some extent qualify this difition... ev ... more

    • Gulsher John (6/8/2014 6:48:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      Mr Paul.... before taking you to Mr Jefferson Carter(he will surely respond) just read a stanza (any stanza from a poem) and a paragraph aloud.... ........... (did) you feel any difference?wh ... more

  • Lorraine Margueritte Gasrel Black (6/6/2014 11:02:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    If a student new to the art of poetry asks you " how do you tell the difference between prose and poetry?" What would your answer be?What is the first poem in the earliest years of human history written?Is Poetry older than Prose?

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    • Paul Butters (6/8/2014 8:42:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      Lorraine - Most sources cite the oldest epic poem as being " The Epic of Gilgamesh" - many years BC - " He who has seen everything, I will make known (?) to the lands. I will teac ... more

  • John Zwerenz (6/6/2014 10:11:00 AM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    “ON POETRY AND POETICS by John Lars Zwerenz I believe anyone can be a poet if they want to be one. Although I also believe one can not simply compose verse or prose and then go on to live in a common, conventional way that gives no heed to the intangibles of life, to the ethereal and to the mystical aspects of existence. Poets, to be true poets must live as poets, perpetually. That is to say they must sacrifice their own personal wills, inclinations and psyches, and offer them to God, to His muses, and to His providential wisdom, come what may. Often, as in the case of almost every bard whose works have survived through the centuries, to be a true poet entails trusting in the Lord enough to willingly go through ineffable hells and heavens here below, to go through ecstasies and agonies, to go through tortures and raptures, freely- as an oblation, for His sake. Thus the human spirit profits from such an oblation, which is infinitely more important spiritually to humanity than the sum effects of what one has written in books. Edgar Allan Poe wrote profound, beauteous verse because he was a profound and beauteous poet, not the other way around. One first must become a poet in life before one becomes a poet on paper. Such are my beliefs concerning poetry and poets. John”
    — ~ John Lars Zwerenz

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    • Peter Stavropoulos (6/7/2014 8:08:00 AM) Post reply

      " A poet is someone who writes poetry. A good poet is someone who writes good poetry" . Jefferson's comment is, actually, profound.

    • Jefferson Carter (6/6/2014 5:50:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      AND Poe is a truly minor poet, a scene chewer who thrashes around in the musty, dusty curtains of Gothic melodrama. PU! !


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  • Gulsher John (6/6/2014 9:52:00 AM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    What is more important in a POEM?
    Message?
    Meaning?
    Construction?(prosody)

    (the list can be extended to Sign, Symbol, imagery etc...)

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    • F. J. Thomas (6/11/2014 9:02:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      If the only thing that can be said about a work is that " it is perfectly formatted" then it is not poetry. Make me understand your philosophy or feel your pain. Raise my spirits with your h ... more

    • Lamont Palmer (6/6/2014 2:20:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      " The importance lies in what the poem is. Its existence as a poem is of first importance, a technical matter, as with all facts, compelling the recognition of a mechanical structure. A poem whic ... more

    • Lorraine Margueritte Gasrel Black (6/6/2014 11:04:00 AM) Post reply

      I would say that the elements required in writing a poem would depend on the style and subject.

  • Gulsher John (6/5/2014 12:21:00 PM) Post reply

    Modern poetry or poetry of the 20th century:
    (source: WIKIPEDIA)

    The Imagists
    rejected the sentiment and discursiveness typical of much Romantic and Victorian poetry, in contrast to their contemporaries, the Georgian poets, who were generally content to work within that tradition. At the time Imagism emerged, Longfellow and Tennyson were considered the paragons of poetry, and the public valued the sometimes moralising tone of their writings.
    In contrast, Imagism called for a return to what were seen as more Classical values, such as
    directness of presentation
    and economy of language,
    as well as a willingness to experiment with non-traditional verse forms.
    Imagists use free verse.
    The origins of Imagism are to be found in two poems, Autumn and A City Sunset by T. E. Hulme.

    The roots of English-language poetic modernism can be traced back to the works of a number of earlier writers, including Walt Whitman, whose long lines approached a type of free verse, the prose poetry of Oscar Wilde, Robert Browning's subversion of the poetic self, Emily Dickinson's compression and the writings of the early English Symbolists, especially Arthur Symons.
    However, these poets essentially remained true to the basic tenets of the Romantic movement and the appearance of the Imagists marked the first emergence of a distinctly modernist poetic in the language. One anomalous figure of the early period of modernism also deserves mention: Gerard Manley Hopkins wrote in a radically experimental prosody about radically conservative ideals (not unlike a later Ezra Pound) , and he believed that sound could drive poetry. Specifically, poetic sonic effects (selected for verbal and aural felicity, not just images selected for their visual evocativeness) would also, therefore, become an influential poetic device of modernism.

    A characteristic feature of Imagism is its attempt to isolate a single image to reveal its essence. This feature mirrors contemporary developments in avant-garde art, especially Cubism. Although Imagism isolates objects through the use of what Ezra Pound called " luminous details" , Pound's Ideogrammic Method of juxtaposing concrete instances to express an abstraction is similar to Cubism's manner of synthesizing multiple perspectives into a single image.
    Modernists saw themselves as looking back to the best practices of poets in earlier periods and other cultures. Their models included ancient Greek literature,
    Chinese and Japanese poetry, the troubadours,
    Dante and the medieval Italian philosophical poets (such as Guido Cavalcanti) ,
    and the English Metaphysical poets.

    Features: : : : imagist prefers:

    Direct treatment of the " thing" , whether subjective or objective.
    To use absolutely no word that does not contribute to the presentation.
    As regarding rhythm: to compose in sequence of the musical phrase, not in sequence of the metronome.
    Complete freedom of subject matter.
    Free verse was encouraged along with other new rhythms.
    Common speech language was used, and the exact word was always to be used, as opposed to the almost exact word.
    In setting these criteria for poetry, the Imagists saw themselves as looking backward to the best practices of pre-Romantic writing. Imagists poets used sharp language and embrace imagery. Their work, however, was to have a revolutionary impact on English-language writing for the rest of the 20th century.

  • Jefferson Carter (6/4/2014 10:47:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    Guys (and gals) , I know my comment about Maya being a mean drunk was possibly mean; she did have a hellish childhood and was damaged in many ways. I really don't give much weight to a poet's biography though when I read her poems. If they're not very good, they're not very good, and her past pain doesn't change that. I don't want to add to the world's meanness, but I truly despise the media's shoveling horsesh*t about a celebrity they've helped create. She wasn't a saint. She was a damaged, mildly talented poet (haven't read her prose) who became an inspiring role model for many. RIP.

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    • Professor Plum (6/4/2014 3:19:00 PM) Post reply

      I agree.

    • Lamont Palmer (6/4/2014 1:51:00 PM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

      I suppose its safe to say no one's a saint?The media likes to create myths around our cultural icons. Frost being a 'nice, country bumpkin who just happened to write poetry' was another myth. We all h ... more

  • Mike Acker (6/4/2014 10:28:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    The Clue

    Even those outside picked up on the buzz.
    They also began to be agitated, well, more
    excitable, I suppose. Inside the glassed-in
    area, the question yet unanswered was how
    the woman had gotten to the roof. Uneventful,
    was the best way they could describe her stay.

    Everyone began to assure themselves that
    everything was done properly and by the book.
    This was a major event, although not rare.
    Two of the ones in the enclosed area came
    out and headed to her room. There wasn't
    much there, which is common here. They were,

    however, looking for something specific, maybe
    a clue of sorts. After giving up and turning to
    leave, one of them went back to the bed and
    pulled the covers, then raised the pillow and
    there it was. Unfolded with very little on it, one
    could almost miss it against the white sheets.

    They went back to show it to the rest. The one
    who found it began to read out loud and it was
    harder than it seemed. It looked like she had
    difficulty writing it and now became difficult to read.
    She managed to make sense of the first few words,
    but then the last word or two seemed unreadable.

    " All I wanted was" , was all they could read
    at that point. But the last part seemed illegible,
    until one of the ones standing screamed out:
    " a hug! All she wanted was a hug! "
    The note then dropped, face down, to the ground.

    Mike Acker

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  • Jefferson Carter (6/3/2014 3:17:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    i just heard from a reliable source that Maya Angelou was a raving drunk! How strange this aspect of her personality never made it into the media. Jezus, she could even have been one of the pseudonyms that plague this site! ! !

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    • Peter Stavropoulos (6/3/2014 9:17:00 PM) Post reply

      Didn't she suffer trauma as a child and spend 5 years of her childhood not talking, and then become a famous poet after more tribulation?I haven't been a fan of her poetry but I might become one.

    • Frank Ovid (6/3/2014 4:18:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      I can see you got your PhD in 'Classy'. Nice.

  • Mike Acker (6/3/2014 1:23:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Strewn II as reply...one of my favorites...

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    • Mike Acker (6/3/2014 1:23:00 PM) Post reply

      Strewn II In a sterile room, he sits across from me. Modern, polished, exact, seemingly honest, he wears a pristine coat. A gray machine spews out shiny white sheets, strewn with black, bub ... more

  • Paul Butters (6/3/2014 10:44:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    Let's throw in some FUN -

    “Rockin’ ’n’ Boppin’”

    It’s time for a rhyme
    I hear you chime.
    It’s time to hit the beat.

    We’re ready to dance
    Without a glance,
    Pick up those Tyger feet.

    Those drums do thump,
    Dancers grind and bump,
    The party’s in full sway.

    Don’t feel like strolling,
    Just want to be rollin’
    In the scattered hay.

    Them guitars are twanging
    I’m really panging
    To twirl you round and round.

    Some like to fight;
    I’d rather dance all night
    To that raucous rebel sound.

    Let’s go.

    Paul Butters

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