Poetics and Poetry Discussion

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  • Christine Magee (3/16/2005 9:56:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    I was saddened to hear that Sandra was leaving because, although I haven't been here all that long, I know how much she would have been missed. So I'm delighted she's decided to stay.

    It's very heartening to see this forum being used as a place for open, pleasant and meaningful discussion. Thank you to Ulrike for starting this and to Lenchen for pointing me here.

    There are many valuable and intelligent contributions already, which bodes well for the future. I am very shy by nature and I suspect there are many like me who might struggle to find the confidence to post (presenting a poem is so very different) but they will be able to come here to read and to feel part of something special, without feeling pressure to speak up which can be terribly daunting for some...


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    • Sandra Osborne (3/18/2005 6:35:00 AM) Post reply

      Thank you so much. You are a shinning light on this site and I truely appreciate it. You're the best and all the best people know it. :)

  • Lare Austin (3/16/2005 9:45:00 AM) Post reply

    Um...hi...is there anything I can do here to help? ? ? ? ? ?

    Just me, Lare

  • ***** ***** (3/16/2005 6:50:00 AM) Post reply

    Hi all, you could post a Likert Scale (very bad, bad, average, good, very good) but that may not improve things.. I suppose it narrows the distance from very bad (1) to very good (10) , just to soften the edge of a one.. I wouldn't have a problem if people need that in the end, but someone could still move you from very good to very bad more quickly couldn't they? If I have worked it out wrong, apologies! Maybe a 3 option would be good, but what wording do you choose there Outstanding/Good/Poor? People would have to agree (outstanding is different to excellent etc..) Seeing as we are people of words, I think it's fair to say that the initial selection or rating words is vital. The two choice option doesn't work for me because it has no relationship to a Bell Curve distribution.. am I getting too into this as I'm writing...? Anyway the rating system that's there was just fine, if people could rate what they really thought honestly. Alas.. Sxx
    addendum: this is soooo much better for thrashing out ideas - thanks Ulli XX

  • Ulrike Gerbig (3/16/2005 6:35:00 AM) Post reply

    Hello, all you fellow poets!

    I am soooo glad that many of you took up my suggestion and posted your opinions here.
    I think the tone between all of us is improving immensely; maybe it was about time we realized that we all are more or less in the same boat and all sensitive people when it comes to our writing...

    Most certainly things that are said in the open in an objective and friendly way might be helpful to all of us.

    I am sure we will come up with a good 'new' rating system!

    Keep thinking about it and keep posting: it is a joy to see how everything develops here.

    Thanks again to all of you (and I am really glad Sandra decided to stay! ! !) ,


  • Lenchen Elf (3/16/2005 4:45:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    All credit for starting the discussion should be given to Ulrike. Thanks again: -)

    I like Michaels suggestion of a modified rating sys, perhaps based on 'Good' or 'needs review'....plus a constructive comment? We could approach PH and ask, if enough are of a similar mind?
    all the best

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  • Sandra Osborne (3/16/2005 2:52:00 AM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    Well. I have to say 'Hail to the Elf'. She has done more than anyone else to keep me here and writing. So I would call her 'Elrod' in another life - Always, Gandolf.

    Replies for this message:
    • Ulrike Gerbig (3/16/2005 6:40:00 AM) Post reply

      i am glad you decided to stay! ulrike

    • Sandra Osborne (3/16/2005 4:28:00 AM) Post reply

      Yes, Hail Ulrike Gerbig. She is a rare and welcomed talent.

    • Peter A. Crowther (3/16/2005 3:30:00 AM) Post reply

      I should say 'hail' to Ulrike Gerbig, too. She is the one who first suggested the use of this forum to help resolve the conflicts.

  • Robert Rorabeck (3/16/2005 1:32:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Hey. Lenchen Elf directed me here too, so please blame her if I say something when I don't really have anything to say. As to general comments on poemhunter, I think the site is great. It's amazing how many people take the time to actually read your poetry and it's nice to have a forum where your work is put alongside better poets (then you can steal their pictures and make yourself look famous!) I've had /almost/ my fair share of criticism (a little more might be due) , but there are so many generous, nice, and intelligent people here to converse with who appreciate and understand /some of/ what you're trying to do with your work/ Herbert ABABAB/- I also have to say that I find the site extremely addictive /spoon&flame/ and have increased my poetry output just so I can swing as often as I like /to annoy Poetry Hound/ (sorry 'bout that- sorry if I put on everything I write, but/ like the 80s song/ its my prerogative) . Concerning criticism and number rankings, I think it's mostly important to try and maintain your own opinion of your work and not let others persuade your mind otherwise (use the force!) - and just keep writing and trying to write well, however that comes across to you/ if it comes at all/ (is a good poem never written better than a bad poem written? /shared?) - There are many very talented writers here showing off and looking pretty- and some not so good writers to be sure trying to be beautiful (don't look at me when I say that) - What we all really want is to be musicians, I think/ J.C. & J.W./-but we're all still living in our middle-class homes/skulls/ I really appreciate all the stats and such which poemhunter provides- The top 500 hundred is also great (if meaningless- Silverstein before Bukowski not to mention ginsberg and Corso, come on! -but if any of us thinks we deserve to be on there it's just our erected egos- got to get published first/and die from massive head trauma/bullfight/shotgun/oven) and the overall database of published poets is an excellent, ready source, when you don't have anything else to read- What might be an interesting addition to poemhunter would be an amateur poet 500 so I could see Rich Hanson, Lenchen Elf, tiffany etters, Adrienne Barnathan, Saywell, and Sonya Broderick /Neddy too/in the nude/ get their well deserved recognition.

    Farewell and adieu my fair spanish ladies- farewell and adieu my ladies of spain



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  • Jeffrey Spahr-Summers (3/15/2005 6:58:00 PM) Post reply

    As for me...

    The ranking arena doesn't mean a thing, who am I to judge others innermost expression? No matter how we mold our message, tripe or treasure, there always is and always will be some fool ready to tear it down. It is the human condition. Call it envy or arrogance, it is the same animal! Different people interpret poems differently!

    As for the comments arena...

    Browsing through my own poems on this site, I see excessive extremes at both ends of the spectrum. I find the comments humorous, at the very least curious as a rule, they certainly don't sway my own opinion, and I am often puzzled by their intent anyway! People refrain from comment unless they are passionately driven to it, so we catch them either way. Status quo!

    I do find the hits of certain interest. They may not neccessarily reflect the number of people who visit, but they do reflect interest. Whether this interest is truly appreciation or not, is irrelevant. It is exposure!

    And as for the poetry terrorists who skunk about, attacking our poems seconds after being loaded on the site, I take their animosity as a huge compliment!

    And the Top 500...

    Get real!

  • Rich Hanson (3/15/2005 5:02:00 PM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    I too would be more comfortable without the numerical rating system. Why not just give our reaction to a poem, suggestions for improvement or praise or criticism in the 'comments' section. If the numerical rating system is retained, have a record of the rater next to the numerical rating. This will eliminate the immature 'hit and run' raters and also embarrass those (Yes, I'm sure there are a few of them) who pump up the ratings of their own poems. This is a wonderful site; finding it has got me writing again after about a 10 year layoff. Now, if there was the same kind of site for short stories.
    This is off topic, but has anyone donated to this site? I'm very leary of going the PayPal route and giving out my credit card number, but if others of you have used it with no repercusions, it might be alright. Let me know your own experiences on this, will you please?

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    • Ulrike Gerbig (3/16/2005 2:05:00 AM) Post reply

      for short stories try abc.tales.com (not sure if the spelling is correct) : there you can post short stories and get reactions, too. ulrike

    • Robert Rorabeck (3/16/2005 12:52:00 AM) Post reply

      i use paypal too (avid ebay seller/ buyer) and it works fine

    • Jackson Kilroy (3/15/2005 5:38:00 PM) Post reply

      I use Paypal quite frequently. It is a secure site. Proceed without worry.

  • Michael Shepherd (3/15/2005 4:42:00 PM) Post reply

    One theme which does intrigue me is whether on-screen poetry is developing its own individual form. I only wrote sonnets before appearing on this site; they look too 'heavy' here unless I break them up into three quatrains and a couplet - visually. Even then they can be 'heavy'.
    It seems rather like back to the 1920s and even back to the 1890s - the visual mise-en-page often counting for more than 'poetic' values; sight-bites!
    Also the short lines that go with rock lyrics seem to be influencing most of ous young poets - again, becoming 'visual' on the page to the neglect of poetic music. I myself have slid very quickly into a prpedominantly 'prose' style - except for the comic poems, which maintain poetic values I've noticed! Intriguing.

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