Poetics and Poetry Discussion

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  • Twirlycrack Mcgoobernuts (5/19/2005 3:26:00 PM) Post reply

    The Novelist

    I just discovered this album through my big sister. She lives in LA and saw this guy live and bought the CD, then liked it so much she made me a copy. It’s by this guy Richard Swift http: //www.richardswift.us Reminds me of balmy summer days…very lyrical. Just thought I’d share.

  • Michael Shepherd (5/19/2005 5:27:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Lamont, I assume you're not a teacher of poetry; they have to engage with students at their own level. If you're going to be so dismissive, I think you owe it to us to explain your criteria. What is 'music' in poetry to you?
    It seems to me from my superficial reading, that American poetry is doing exactly what you condemn - becoming more like the definition that is now commonly given to free verse - 'prose with enhanced consciousness'. You clearly still hear the music. But if rhyme, and lyric, and the metaphysical with its soaring ecstasies, are all put out of the ballpark, what's left? I would say, the 'music' of prose. I'm currently reading Kooser's 'Local Wonders' which is entirely 'prose' yet so beautiful in its writing that every few lines could be half a poem. Don't the prose writer and the poet meet in this 'music'?
    The Greek origin of the word is in thinking and contemplating- as is the origin of the word 'mystic'. If I read a poem which comes from the heart, and from contemplation of its theme, and whose words are chosen with a 'poetic' discrimination not to jar with its presentation (I agree with JC about those two words in James Mills' poem which 'disappointed' me more than just jarred) - and a poem which most of all, if it's descriptive, makes me feel I am right there with the writer - than for me there is something between being called 'music' and 'not unmusic'...
    A master like Auden can write a lyric which is deeply serious as well as being amusing, and musical, such as 'Tell Me About Love'. I wonder if what we define as 'music' isn't ultimately the sound of the poet's very self, which we hear or don't hear. I wouldn't myself, on that score, dismiss either Jerry or Jimmy as being without music. Nor is Bukowski, in a poem like 'A Certain Smile' which sears my heart, without his own music in his 'best' work.

    So where does that 'music' rest? Over to you!

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    • Poetry Hound (5/19/2005 11:10:00 AM) Post reply

      I think defining the 'music' of a free verse poem is elusive. You can point to things like use of alliterations or a pattern of accented and unaccented syllables. But ultimately it's hard to break dow ... more

  • mother baxter (5/19/2005 3:56:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    oh i love discussion without exclusion, but can you match it with a redcoat
    i'm the new wonder boy larry redcoat

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  • Sunny Albright (5/19/2005 1:28:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Hello all. I've been told this is the place to be for the good discussions!

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  • Scott Mcdonald (5/19/2005 12:59:00 AM) Post reply

    We know who those are who choose to be 'unseen'.

  • Raynette Eitel (5/18/2005 6:48:00 PM) Post reply

    Oh Jefferson, how could you miss the resemblance to Sandburg's poem, 'Chicago? '
    Perhaps the only difference is when Sandburg says, '...proud to be hog butcher.' These guys are created by James to be little above the hogs (if they are) . James' poem has the same base brutality as Sandburg and does a good job helping us see what he witnessed.


  • Michael Shepherd (5/18/2005 12:51:00 PM) Post reply

    I suggest: public question, public answer; private question, private answer. That is, where we pose a question we would like everyone's answers or responses to, the answers should be in the main body of the forum here, not on a thread, which gets swept away by the flotsam. That way, we can keep the unresponded questions (which are quite a few by now, by the way...) in view. OK?

  • Raynette Eitel (5/18/2005 10:15:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    This poem reminds me of Carl Sandburg's 'Chicago.' The first line of Sandburg's 'Hog Butcher for the World, ' seems the same as 'Tuesdays were pigs.' It never ceases to amaze me that a poem can be made of any topic. It can be aesthetic or brutal, earthy or ethereal, and the poet can make it work. (or not) This poem gave me a glimpse at a part of life I'd rather not know about. On the other hand, I suspect there are people who raise hogs and take them to market and then go home and read poetry or listen to Bach. It is usually people on the outside to pin labels on others.

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    • Michael Shepherd (5/18/2005 12:59:00 PM) Post reply

      Incidentally, Rich Hanson, who has recently withdrawn from the site but may (hallo, Rich....) be dropping in from time to time, writes serious, researched poetry in leisure hours between family, ball ... more

    • Michael Shepherd (5/18/2005 10:38:00 AM) Post reply

      Thanks for the response, Raynette (who I note, has thrived on poemhunter so far?) ... for me it is a well-presented 'slice of real life' which, though I wouldn't be up to it myself unless raised to it ... more

  • Michael Shepherd (5/18/2005 6:43:00 AM) Post reply

    Someone, was it JC? suggested that we might apply ourselves more usefully to discussing a poem by one of our members - who could then reply to the comments. I would suggest that we might look at James Mills' poem 'Tuesdays were pigs' which is currently up there.
    I suggest this because it seems to me to be a good example of what Wallace Stevens called 'the search for what will suffice' - which I take to include what suffices to the poet's capabilities, as well as to the poem itself; Poemhunter opens its doors to all levels of poetic skill or lack of it. I won't offer my own judgment of the poem further than that.
    Also I might mention that no-one's taken me up on that Cincinnatti poetess and her poem on 'Slate' online mag.? That I'll certainly not comment on...

  • Allan James Saywell (5/18/2005 5:47:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    haute do you and your cronies need a bit of human company occasionely
    it must be hard being a hermit, with no friends perhaps i could sing you a song
    tiptoe through the tulips with meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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    • Michael Shepherd (5/18/2005 12:54:00 PM) Post reply

      Allan, when did you last make a sincere, kind, useful, positive comment here, and one that didn't relate back to yourself?

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