Poetics and Poetry Discussion

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  • Rookie - 7 Points Max Reif (8/12/2005 8:57:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply
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    Some people perceive fun where other people perceive abuse and inappropriateness. It's all due to our family backgrounds and our adaptations to them, I guess.

    The atmosphere to me resembles 'Mad Max at Thunderdome' sometimes.

    But every computer discussion group seems to have all the roles we have here. I've even seen the archetypes caricatured and satirized in a great article. Wish I knew its URL.

    Just human nature for there to be no general agreement about what civil behavior is.

    Collette's the one who has to interface with a complaining public, because whatever we think, this isn't a private discussion, it's a fishbowl. So she has to do what she has to do. I personally don't mind.

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  • Rookie - 150 Points Poetry Hound (8/12/2005 8:27:00 AM) Post reply

    I like what Shep said a little while ago. I think it bears repeating:

    Michael Shepherd (8/12/2005 6: 31: 00 AM) Post reply

    This site seems to be going through what we're going through in Britain right now - free speech at all costs v. inflammatory righteous language v. 'please Teach it wasn't me and anyway s(he) started it'... what a load of hypocritical crap.

    Everyone knows what keeps a vigorous discussion group going (AND not scaring off would-be joiners) - argue over the poems, the language, and the poetry, with as much heat as you like -just dropppp the name-calling and ad hominem.
    'Oh it's all in good fun...' Not that I've noticed, Buster...

  • Rookie Michael Shepherd (8/12/2005 6:44:00 AM) Post reply

    Who would want to join a 'conversation' (see above rubric) like this Forum, after reading this page of playground antics?

  • Rookie - 0 Points Collette Parniere (8/12/2005 2:42:00 AM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    ********** Mr. Carter, as I have said many times, criticism – even harsh criticism – is fine. Disagreement with each other is fine. In fact, it is healthy. The problem is with name-calling, personal insults, and attacks on one another’s character. These are not acceptable. You and a few others may have thick skins, but judging from the complaints we receive, most people do not prefer an atmosphere poisoned by attacks and incivility. Collette. **********

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    • Rookie - 0 Points Collette Parniere (8/12/2005 3:09:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      ********** Is this really so difficult to understand? Mr. Carter, please do not call Mr. Nerhlich names, including “Nerdlick, ” and Mr. Nehlich, you de-legitimized your complaint by adding in this i ... more

    • Rookie - 0 Points Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/12/2005 2:47:00 AM) Post reply

      Collette, a typical example is taking place while we speak. I do object to Carter calling me Nerdlick which he has just done. Childish is correct and it is obvious that stronger measures may be needed ... more

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  • Rookie - 0 Points Collette Parniere (8/11/2005 6:34:00 PM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    ********** I have just removed a series of rude comments and personal insults by Herbert Nehrlich, Sherrie Gonzales-Kolb, Poetry Hound, Poetry Snob, and one or two others. This childish behavior needs to stop. You do not need to join in to every disagreement and inflame it. You do not need to have the last word. Please excercise some self control. Thank you. Collette. **********

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    • Rookie - 0 Points Poetry Snob (aka Jefferson Carter) (8/12/2005 2:35:00 AM) Post reply

      Collette, its not childish. Its how artists and wannabe artists with strong opinions act. Dont emasculate the forum, please! Abrasive is better than boring. Snob

    • Rookie - 0 Points t. h. ashbury (8/11/2005 10:19:00 PM) Post reply

      collette, there is an artistic integrity requirement that cannot sustain endless kindness. do you have any suggestions for how we might comply with your requirements and preserve any excuse for a ... more

    • Rookie - 0 Points Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/11/2005 9:25:00 PM) Post reply

      I noticed that a comment by a lady from Austria was removed. It was a factual critique of a poem written by J Carter. There was nothing inflammatory in it. Are we now going fully down the path of 'no ... more

  • Rookie Anong All (8/11/2005 5:26:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    Not like this is going to matter, but l had comment'd upon one of Herbert's poems.., the title being: For Her ..., my comment was removed, and to me that is somewhat rude. l do read a lot of the poems within this site, and l enjoy many of them. Yet l don't comment upon many, and when l do.., it's becaue the poem was deeply felt. Yet, whatever....................

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    • Rookie Collette Parniere (8/11/2005 6:37:00 PM) Post reply

      ********** I did not remove it Jodilee. These disappearances are quite rare, but they happen sometimes. I am sorry. Try posting it again. Collette. **********

    • Rookie Max Reif (8/11/2005 6:26:00 PM) Post reply

      Gosh. You can write to the webmaster, you'll probably get an explanation. Maybe it was some kind of mistake. Always hoping for the best, Max

  • Rookie - 4 Points Michael Gessner (8/11/2005 2:31:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    In response to the discussion between Lamont, Jefferson, Matthew, & others, there is 'The First Step, ' a poem of Cavafy, (also on PH; #70/88 which has never received comment or rating :)


    The young poet Evmenis
    complained one day to Theocritos:

    'I've been writing for two years now
    and I've composed only one idyll.
    It's my single completed work.
    I see, sadly, that the ladder
    of Poetry is tall, extremely tall;
    and from this first step I'm standing on now
    I'll never climb any higher.'
    Theocritos retorted: 'Words like that
    are improper, blasphemous.
    Just to be on the first step
    should make you happy and proud.
    To have reached this point is no small achievement:
    what you've done already is a wonderful thing.
    Even this first step
    is a long way above the ordinary world.
    To stand on this step
    you must be in your own right
    a member of the city of ideas.
    And it's a hard, unusual thing
    to be enrolled as a citizen of that city.
    Its councils are full of Legislators
    no charlatan can fool.
    To have reached this point is no small achievement:
    what you've done already is a wonderful thing.'

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    • Rookie - 4 Points Poetry Hound (8/11/2005 4:18:00 PM) Post reply

      What is a poem? Oh God, I haven't consumed enough wine yet to try to venture an answer to that. But once we've tackled that one, we can move on to answer an easier question like, what is art? (and don ... more

    • Rookie - 4 Points Poetry Hound (8/11/2005 3:07:00 PM) Post reply

      Not my cup of tea either, but OF COURSE it's a poem, prose and all.

  • Rookie Maty Grosman (8/11/2005 12:58:00 PM) Post reply

    I welcome anyone who's interested to read my poem,
    Justice.(Or, The Road To Ruins...) , I'm wondering how well will it be understood...


  • Rookie - 7 Points Max Reif (8/11/2005 10:01:00 AM) Post reply

    I read with interest the discussion of 'found poetry'-doing the framing and letting 'Chance' do the writing.

    (I feel like someone writing to a newpaper columnist, like Ms. Manners. Anyone, by the way, read MISS LONELYHEARTS? Quite a powerful little book.)

    My wife was asking me why I capitalize the first word of a line of poetry. She said that unless it's some formal, rhymed poem, it reads more easily to her to have the flow continue in lower case, and only to see first words of sentences and proper nouns capitalized.

    I had a great answer for her: I don't care which way my poems line up. Capitalizing the first word of a line is a convention. I've mostly felt the meaning will come through the convention. Her point makes sense to me, though. Furthermore, few if any old conventions in poetry are universal any more.

    It's just that I may be too lazy to go back and change the formatting on a couple hundred poems.

    Any thoughts?

    Well, any feelings, then?

    Poetic in California

  • Freshman - 837 Points Lamont Palmer (8/11/2005 9:45:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Herb, I thought I'd reply to your comment here. You are right, in some respects. History bears it out; the most original and inventive poets were not always the most popular poets. But it depends on who you feel your audience is, or what voice happens to be your voice. McKuen was a wildly popular poet; was he inventive? No. Is he respected in the poetry world? No. Wallace Stevens is praised as being perhaps the best poet of the 20th century, at least here in the states. Was he inventive? Yes. Was he popular among the people? A resounding NO. Whatever one's poetic voice is, its a coincidence who its going to resonate with; you never know until you start submitting your work. The film world is the same way; 'Citizen Kane' is hailed as the best film ever made; is it as popular as the average Jerry Lewis film shot during the same period? No. Is it a greater artistic achievement than anything Lewis ever made? Yes. Are there people who prefer a Jerry Lewis film, to an Orson Welles film? Yes. Its all about personal choice.

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