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Poetics and Poetry Discussion


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  • Rookie Michael Shepherd (8/5/2005 6:24:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply
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    Alas, no time
    for line-end rhyme,
    no hope
    of trope,
    no commandment
    of enjambment,
    only dimmily
    aware of simile,
    and none the better for
    the use of metaphor;
    and don't speak meutsch
    of Pennsylvania Deutsch..

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    • Rookie Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/5/2005 6:54:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      The first time I have come across someone knowing that it is not Pennsylvania Dutch but Deutsch. It's almost like it's and its, a few more years and the rules get changed and it won't matter. It look ... more

  • Rookie Poetry Snob (aka Jefferson Carter) (8/4/2005 12:25:00 PM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    Jefferson and Lamont, Im going to post a new poem, its about Richard III working out in a health club, and you two dont need to read it or comment on it. Your both too critical and to paraphrase Herbert not broadminded enough. Also Herbert dont you read it either. You have too much fun ridiculing others poetry even though Id rather have you slam my poem than praise it, then I knw its pretty good. P-Snob

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    • Rookie Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/4/2005 4:36:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      Thank you for inviting me. And no, it isn't. Definitely not. Maybe next time. H

    • Rookie Michael Shepherd (8/4/2005 4:32:00 PM) Post reply

      Now I've read it - it would make a good stand-up sketch for the comedy circuit if you expanded it.

    • Rookie Michael Shepherd (8/4/2005 1:24:00 PM) Post reply

      Sounds like a limited Summer Discontent Offer to me, but I guess it's good for backs that have gone crook...or poets with weak knees or lily livers... c'mon, PS - into the cannon's mouth, live up to y ... more

  • Rookie - 7 Points Max Reif (8/4/2005 9:45:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Is it fair to use italics in a poem for emphasis?
    Or should a poet be able to nuance his words without resorting to such things?

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  • Rookie - 793 Points Jerry Hughes (8/4/2005 12:26:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    greetings Herbert, sounds rather odd the whole thing. You shouldn't be asked for a password to submit a poem, cos you're already a member. Try without a password and see waht happens. Apropos retrieval in situ, like Sergeant Shultz, I know nothing! Cheers, Jerry

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    • Rookie - 793 Points Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/4/2005 3:25:00 AM) Post reply

      Jerry, without exaggeration, it was one of my top poems. I am still a bit furious. So I did sit down and wrote the gist from memory, I had to struggle as it is almost impossible to write a poem the se ... more

  • Rookie Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/3/2005 9:47:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Question: I jusdt typed a poem into the Submit A New Poem site. When clicking submit, the system asked me for password. When I went back to the poem it was gone. Any chance of retrieval?
    Thanks for any help
    H

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    • Rookie Michael Shepherd (8/4/2005 5:13:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      As one who rewrote the same longish poem three times - if you type the poem in rather than paste it, the new shorter time allowed by both servers on overload, and the site's mechanism itself, can be a ... more

  • Rookie Poetry Snob (aka Jefferson Carter) (8/3/2005 5:20:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Lamont, you really hurt my feelings. I read that Corpse poem after I had my weekly bath (which I take whether I need it or not) . I did feel slimed on as if I was in the presence of a misshapen, monstrous spitting baby. Im sorry Im so sensitive. You should try a little harder to curb your personal attacks on poetic hygene. Im sure your funky sometimes, yes? But I forgive you. P-Snob

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  • Rookie - 7 Points Max Reif (8/3/2005 9:24:00 AM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    'POETRY IS NEWS THAT STAYS NEWS.'
    -Ezra Pound

    Educated, uneducated, who cares? A little education is a dangerous thing, they say.
    When I sample the river of poetry here, stand in the flow for a couple hours like a trout fisherman in hip boots, I find such gems: rubies, saphires, diamonds, so what if many are uncut?
    I find so many different tastes, to use a different metaphor. So what if many are 'bad' poetry-they all have one thing in common, they're living, breathing human documents.
    The 'bad' poetry is 'bad', I think, because it doesn't convey a genuine experience. The experience gets lost in the effort to rhyme, often. Sometimes all one reads is a collection of rhyme-words with lines as appendages, like a tadpole's tail. There's nothing inherent that makes a poem about the subject of unrequited love 'bad'. It's simply that the writer is too close to the subject matter, or not honest enough to really reach the essence of the experience...or just not verbal enough.
    But, to change metaphors yet again, those writings are pieces of candy I'll taste and then put back. No harm done.
    I find many fine poets who haven't mastered all the rules of grammar. So what? It's an adventure to do that 'trout fishing'! I really DON'T have the mental strength to read every poem, the current gets to me after awhile. I really wish I did, though. Restricting oneself to 'Forum poets', I would miss a great deal!
    Another thing I try to do is offer support. If there's one really good line in a poem, why not praise it? And then there is the person behind the poetic effort, I'm not above giving support to that person. This site is basically one of the myriad places on earth where human beings meet. I don't try to be a therapist, but 'poetry' is really a subcategory of the human condition, which is the real, overriding 'poem' we're all part of. There are many poets I must leave to the ocean of living, but when I can appropriately reach through for any *genuine* moment of contact (recommending LETTERS TO A YOUNG POET, for example) , I do.

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    • Rookie - 7 Points Raynette Eitel (8/3/2005 10:17:00 AM) Post reply

      Max, this is so well-stated. I particularly like your reminder, 'If there's one really good line in a poem, why not praise it? ' That's kind. That's human. And that's how to nurture a budding poet ... more

    • Rookie - 7 Points Max Reif (8/3/2005 9:47:00 AM) Post reply

      An afterthought: it helps to enters the river with an attitude of humility. I have to continually let go of EVERYTHING, especially 'who I am', (as much as I can) to read the next poem. The effort is ... more

    • Rookie - 7 Points Mary Nagy (8/3/2005 9:43:00 AM) Post reply

      Max, I think you've said it perfectly.

  • Rookie Mary Nagy (8/3/2005 5:49:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Jefferson, If you feel rhyming quatrains and couplets are too difficult for EVEN YOU to attempt because they are so challenging that's fine. (Yes, I'm sure you were aiming that at me since I gravitate towards the quatrain) I personally like a challenge. Why would anyone stop writing a certain way simply because you say it's too difficult for an amatuer? You seem the type of person that would take the pleasure out of anything. Why can't you just realize not everyone cares whether you feel they are qualified to write here? As for your painting comment....I doubt you would enjoy ANY painting that wasn't strictly either paint-by-number or an exact copy of an already declared 'good' peice of art. You seem to have no sense of creativity of your own, just what 'they' say is good. That's a shame.

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    • Rookie Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/3/2005 6:57:00 PM) Post reply

      Mary, I had a dream last night. In it I was cranky and upset with you, I called your work all kinds of names and didn't stop there. I mounted personal attacks on your hairdo, your legs, big toes, dimp ... more

  • Rookie Michael Shepherd (8/3/2005 4:33:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    All the flung dung on this site points up the fact that generalisations are dangerous in that they lead to attitude-taking and labels (I'm a post-post-modernist, so yaa boo sucks...) and then to personal reference.

    Better to discuss individual poems, then we can see where you're coming from and exactly what points you're making. We're talking, I thought, about the role of rhyme and meter in poetry, and why it might be becoming 'outmoded'. There may be interesting reasons for this. It might even be connected to creativity and choice of subject. And surely if you 'teach' creative writing, the first requirement is broadmindedness? Like setting up a website for poetic kiddiwinkies to have a go, maybe even ask for advice? GGRRR

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    • Rookie Michael Shepherd (8/3/2005 6:07:00 AM) Post reply

      In response to this disussion, I had a go at writing a whole four lines of, ooh, ooh, rhyme, last night...I discovered that seeking an *appropriate* rhymed line ending evoked more 'music' in the formi ... more

  • Rookie Michael Shepherd (8/2/2005 2:23:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Pursuing the thought that rhyme still calls solemnly at times of benediction, Auden on the death of WBYeats, and of younger poets, Yvor Winters to his daughter. A very quick trawl of occasional rhymers - Lowell, Roethke, Frost, Hemingway; Countee Cullen and Langston Hughes; O'Hara; Plath in Lady Lazarus for instance, and Thom Gunn; and that's about it, though I don't know the younger poets.
    And there's our exemplary Tony Harrison, whose 'V' is on this site, and which I first read without noticing it's in rhyme...

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    • Rookie Max Reif (8/2/2005 8:09:00 PM) Post reply

      Frost was a master at spare, rhymed lines. Such dignity, like a Greek tragedian!

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