Poetics and Poetry Discussion


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  • A.p. Sweet (8/1/2005 11:29:00 PM) Post reply | Read 4 replies

    What do you prefer, short poems or long poems and why?

    I myself prefer short poems, because to me poems are about emotions and emotions are simple and should not be strung out. If it is more than a page long, write a short story. But, that's just me and maybe i'm wrong or just an idiot. Just let me know how you guy and gals feel. I don't know any poets around where I live.

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    • A.p. Sweet (8/2/2005 7:37:00 PM) Post reply

      I have written a couple of long,3 to 4 page, poems. But they seem to be more of a story than a thought or a detailed emotion. When I get done with one of them, because I tend to revise the long ones a ... more

    • Max Reif (8/2/2005 9:20:00 AM) Post reply

      Long poems are a challenge for me, often. I see a poem as a kind of path. I always start out knowing just where I am-right HERE! But with ambiguous poetic images, long sentences brambled with clauses, ... more

    • Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/2/2005 4:58:00 AM) Post reply

      Aaron I think that there is a place for both. Let's say the long and the short of it says that it is an acknowledgment of the poet's 'talent' if his/her long poems are read. Some people are just plai ... more

    • Lamont Palmer (8/1/2005 11:58:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      I wouldnt say you're stupid Aaron...you ... more

  • Rookie - 0 Points Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/1/2005 5:29:00 PM) Post reply | Read 5 replies

    On the subject of rhyme. I wonder how many poets on this site agree with the apparently prevailing opinion that rhyme is 'gauche', out, passé?
    Is the rhyming poem well and truly a relict from the times of Goethe, Schiller etc. and has no place in today's poetry?

    While I realise that there are few things more pathetic than a poem that struggles to rhyme at the expense of any substance that may have been intended, it also appears to me that I would prefer to read a hilarious rhyming poem any day over the dull offerings of a serious poet who attempts to build some profundity (lateral word) into his poems and decorates them with a few veils here and there, assuring the Oh's and Aw's of the readers. Should a poem be a joy to read, have a message (or a massage) with a profound meaning, be relevant to something that is dear to all our hearts? All of the above? In what order.
    Reading some of the poems on this site, those that are generally praised by the 'elite', I get nothing out of them but somehow feel the word 'phony'.
    A popular poet who is no longer on this site wrote poems that had a large following, most of them were, to my mind, hard to figure out and I often was left with little understanding of her work. Yet she drew praise from everywhere and (possibly because of that) I developed the feeling that there was something of great value in her poetry and it was just me the speaker of a foreign tongue who was a bit thick in deciphering what she was saying.
    Today, many months after, I read her stuff and am no wiser. It is not a pleasant experience to read her work, for me. My poem 'Mind Games', which I had mentioned previously, was an assembly of basically meaningless words and terms used in Hypnosis etc. yet praise came from everywhere.
    So, back to the rhyme, is the rhyme well and truly dead with only a small place left for it on peanutbutter jars?
    According to a long retired teacher of mine in the old country, the vast majority of poetry sold is rhyming poetry. Does this mean that the unsophisticated masses are the purchasers?
    H

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    • Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/1/2005 9:26:00 PM) Post reply

      Thanks to Raynette, Max and Lamont for your comments. It is always good to hear your views although I am not so sure about the statement about rhyming poetry being well and truly dead. Who says? Perso ... more

    • Lamont Palmer (8/1/2005 7:37:00 PM) Post reply

      There is no one purpose or role of a poem. A poem can have a concrete meaning and message or, as in the case of the poetry of John Ashbery, or earlier, e.e. cummings have a very abstract or highly int ... more

    • Max Reif (8/1/2005 7:23:00 PM) Post reply

      There is a similar discussion going on, on the 'writing poetry' forum, at www.absolutwrite.com. In my opinion, it's irrelevant whether a poem rhymes or not. If the poem has a substance that's conveyed ... more

    • Raynette Eitel (8/1/2005 6:45:00 PM) Post reply

      I think some poets are stuck on rhyming ... more

    • Poetry Hound (8/1/2005 6:44:00 PM) Post reply

      My preference is for contrived verse ser ... more

  • Rookie - 0 Points Max Reif (8/1/2005 7:57:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    What percentage of the new poems that come through this site do you folks read? Is it possible to keep up with all of them? I spend an hour or two reading and commenting per day, then I have other things to do. I never get to them all.

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    • Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/1/2005 5:01:00 PM) Post reply

      I read about 20 % of them. Mostly stick to the ones that never disappoint. When a new name appears I sample up to three of her/his offerings, if a new one posts oodles at once I usually do not bother ... more

  • Rookie - 0 Points allan james saywell (8/1/2005 7:09:00 AM) Post reply

    congratulations to herbert who has joined the 1000 poem club welcome aboard herbert it isn't easy is it herbert, i will toast you tonight
    by the way it is a green door with the words welcome

  • Rookie - 0 Points Michael Shepherd (8/1/2005 6:37:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Better check a poem or two on your poemsabout.com page, folks. There are two line-length errors on a poem I put up last night. Haven't looked any further yet.

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  • Rookie - 0 Points Michael Philips (7/31/2005 12:34:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    I had a poetry instructor who would take little snippets of poetic ideas and put them into storage. He had little images, lines, even single words, that he wanted to try to use in future poems. Last year, I started doing the same thing. Sometime I'll come back to a little snippet and it will suddenly germinate into a full poem. Others languish for months waiting to see the light.

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    • Casey Rock (7/31/2005 2:38:00 PM) Post reply

      This is how all of my poems take shape. I am constantly writing down ideas, thoughts, feelings, etc. wherever I am; parked at a red light, eating dinner, at the movies...I try not to let anything slip ... more

  • Rookie - 0 Points Raynette Eitel (7/31/2005 11:37:00 AM) Post reply

    Re: Sherrie's great question: If I am really still and in a post-dream attitude when I first awaken, I find poems are right there up front in my mind. Other times, poems come when I am listening to music or to creative words such as Cole Porter. I just have to go write a poem, even though it probably doesn't have a thing to do with the song just sung. If I ignore my muse, it pouts and doesn't come around for days. I'm not kidding. If I have trouble with a poem, I find it best to leave it and when I return, my muse has written it nicely in my head and it is a 'go.' Most of my writing is on my computer, but when I travel, I take my journal with me for poems that happen.

  • Rookie - 0 Points Gol Mcadam (7/31/2005 11:14:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    RE. SHERRIE'S TOPIC & MAX'S COMMENT. This is interesting. I tend to write initially on paper. The key phrase or the seed of the poem 'hits' me and I go for it - jotting it down and developing it immediately. Then, like Michael, I tend to sleep on it before putting it on the computer. So, the computer is acting as an editing tool. What I have found, and I am trying to get at this in my piece 'Stillborn', is that what hits me is not always what I had initially thought it to be and I find myself unable to articulate the thing. No matter how I try, it just can't be said and the resultant poem is dead on the page. Does everybody have this problem?

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    • Michael Shepherd (7/31/2005 12:10:00 PM) Post reply

      Yes, Gol, frequently! So I took a tip from the wonderful stone sculptors of Zimbabwe: it's all spirit to them. Sometimes the man's spirit is stronger, the stone must obey him; sometimes he should list ... more

  • Rookie - 0 Points Herbert Nehrlich1 (7/31/2005 4:55:00 AM) Post reply | Read 7 replies

    New topic if I may. I have been accused of being a re-incarnation of Dr. Seuss by some. Probably should be greatly flattered, but I would like to know what Max, Michael, Raynette, Linda, Allan, Lawrence, Ronberge, Jerry et al. think about his work.
    This foreigner would like to know.
    Thanks in advance
    H

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    • Stephen Park (7/31/2005 1:13:00 PM) Post reply

      Dr Seuss was a great writer. Stephen Pinker, writing about language from an evolutionary perspective, makes several references to him, which are as great a tribute as anyone could wish for. 'the langu ... more

    • Raynette Eitel (7/31/2005 11:32:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      If I may come lately and answer your question, Herbert. For a time, I taught little children and have to say that kids love Dr. Seuss. His unusual characters, his repetition, his rhymes all appeal to ... more

    • Michael Shepherd (7/31/2005 10:59:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      Dr Seuss has a message for PH management: 'Say what you want and be who you are, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind' ...

    • Michael Shepherd (7/31/2005 8:59:00 AM) Post reply

      I'm with Richard on this. Comedy is divi ... more

    • Max Reif (7/31/2005 8:55:00 AM) Post reply

      Gee, Herbert, I certainly wouldn't have ... more

    • Richard George (7/31/2005 5:49:00 AM) Post reply

      I don't know the guy's work as well as I ... more

    • Michael Shepherd (7/31/2005 5:02:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      Michael says - Who? ...

  • Rookie - 0 Points Michael Shepherd (7/30/2005 10:28:00 AM) Post reply

    I think you've hit the whatsit on the head, Gol and Max. I noticed reading your poem, that the 'shock value' seemed equal to the 'prohibition value'. There maybe something in this re your wife's story, Max - who's saying it?
    I once (as I wrote in a poem) attended an army course with several grunts whose sentences were delayed by using the f-word every other word - noun, verb, adjective, adverb, intensive... it did delay messages (we were in the Signals Corps...)

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