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Poetics and Poetry Discussion


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  • Max Reif (8/12/2005 10:27:00 PM) Post reply | Read 4 replies Stage

    Here's the place I booked, with a separate room for Lamont.

    www.extraholidays.com/resort_details.asp? resortID=78&name=Fairfield_Berkshires_at_Bentley_Brook_Mountain_Club

    Do you think we need something more rustic?

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  • Max Reif (8/12/2005 6:20:00 PM) Post reply | Read 5 replies Stage

    My wife says we should all go for a retreat together in some New England woods, and rent a writer's cottage.
    Wait minute...
    By a lake, she says...
    Fireplace
    & some wood.
    What say?

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  • Michael Shepherd (8/12/2005 3:40:00 PM) Post reply Stage

    I'm with Mahnaz. There's a world of difference between saying that someone is a 'bad' poet (which tells you more about the one saying it than the one said about) and saying that a poem is a 'bad' poem. Poets can change; poems can't. Sometimes (!) I write what I expect will be a 'bad' poem, partly out of the urge to write something rather than nothing, and partly in the hope that something will emerge in the writing which is unplanned; and this usually teaches me something. I did this the other day, felt rather ashamed of it, then next morning it had a certain interest... even got an interested remark...but panned or praised, I wouldn't have been satisfied with it. Perhaps the difference between 'bad' poem and unsuccessful poem is between a pretentious attempt to 'manufacture' a poem, and a well-intentioned one that doesn't come off. That sort of poem is worth consideration.
    Point I'm making: discussion of a poem is usually interesting and useful, discussion of a poet usually not...

  • Poetry Snob (aka Jefferson Carter) (8/12/2005 2:54:00 PM) Post reply Stage

    Lamont, Ive posted a new poem, right down your alley I think. Its a confessional poem, your favorite. I though Id do a Lamont critique first to save the effort of doing one yourself. This piece is anecdotal, prosey, has no music. Its not POETRY. LOL Lamont. Yrs, Snob

  • Max Reif (8/12/2005 1:29:00 PM) Post reply Stage

    Now, does everybody know the one about the writer who goes in his (could be her) office for 4 hours in the morning, comes back out at noon to get a sandwhich from the fridge?
    His daughter asks, 'What did you do this morning? '
    He says, 'I put in a comma.'
    He goes back into his office for 4 more hours. When he comes out, his daughter asks, 'What did you do this afternoon? '
    He says, 'I took it out.'

  • Mary Nagy (8/12/2005 12:08:00 PM) Post reply | Read 3 replies Stage

    If we are trying to keep away from the personal attacks and only comment on the poetry it shouldn't be that difficult. If you really think the poet has no talent and you just HAVE to let them know that's how you feel, why can't you simply explain why you feel that way? ? If you find the poem confusing....tell them you feel it's confusing. If you find a poem having no flow to it...just tell them the flow was hard to find or follow.....whatever. Come on, is it really that hard to let somebody know they may be lacking in an area without saying they have no talent or they are just a lousy writer. It's pretty easy to find SOMETHING positive about almost every poem here. And, maybe you can just realize not everyone wants their flaws pointed out by the others here. Some people just post their poems to 'SHARE' their thoughts and feelings with others. Sadly, this may be the only 'interaction' with others that certain poets get to be a part of. It would be nice if it could be a positive experience for them.

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    • Poetry Hound (8/12/2005 5:11:00 PM) Post reply Stage

      Either it's an astonishing admission or it's yet another case of the pot and the kettle.

    • Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/12/2005 5:07:00 PM) Post reply Stage

      Right, Mary. I sometimes get the impression from the techtelmechtel on the forum that some who (deep down) know they are not only writing mostly Dreck but even Scheissdreck, will resort to ad hominem ... more


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  • Max Reif (8/12/2005 8:57:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply Stage

    Some people perceive fun where other people perceive abuse and inappropriateness. It's all due to our family backgrounds and our adaptations to them, I guess.

    The atmosphere to me resembles 'Mad Max at Thunderdome' sometimes.

    But every computer discussion group seems to have all the roles we have here. I've even seen the archetypes caricatured and satirized in a great article. Wish I knew its URL.

    Just human nature for there to be no general agreement about what civil behavior is.

    Collette's the one who has to interface with a complaining public, because whatever we think, this isn't a private discussion, it's a fishbowl. So she has to do what she has to do. I personally don't mind.

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  • Poetry Hound (8/12/2005 8:27:00 AM) Post reply Stage

    I like what Shep said a little while ago. I think it bears repeating:

    Michael Shepherd (8/12/2005 6: 31: 00 AM) Post reply

    This site seems to be going through what we're going through in Britain right now - free speech at all costs v. inflammatory righteous language v. 'please Teach it wasn't me and anyway s(he) started it'... what a load of hypocritical crap.

    Everyone knows what keeps a vigorous discussion group going (AND not scaring off would-be joiners) - argue over the poems, the language, and the poetry, with as much heat as you like -just dropppp the name-calling and ad hominem.
    'Oh it's all in good fun...' Not that I've noticed, Buster...

  • Michael Shepherd (8/12/2005 6:44:00 AM) Post reply Stage

    Who would want to join a 'conversation' (see above rubric) like this Forum, after reading this page of playground antics?

  • Collette Parniere (8/12/2005 2:42:00 AM) Post reply | Read 3 replies Stage

    ********** Mr. Carter, as I have said many times, criticism – even harsh criticism – is fine. Disagreement with each other is fine. In fact, it is healthy. The problem is with name-calling, personal insults, and attacks on one another’s character. These are not acceptable. You and a few others may have thick skins, but judging from the complaints we receive, most people do not prefer an atmosphere poisoned by attacks and incivility. Collette. **********

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    • Collette Parniere (8/12/2005 3:09:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply Stage

      ********** Is this really so difficult to understand? Mr. Carter, please do not call Mr. Nerhlich names, including “Nerdlick, ” and Mr. Nehlich, you de-legitimized your complaint by adding in this i ... more

    • Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/12/2005 2:47:00 AM) Post reply Stage

      Collette, a typical example is taking place while we speak. I do object to Carter calling me Nerdlick which he has just done. Childish is correct and it is obvious that stronger measures may be needed ... more


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