Poetics and Poetry Discussion


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  • Poetry Snob (aka Jefferson Carter) (8/14/2005 11:33:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    Maty, I just read your poem 'Justice.' To use Michael's tactful term, its quite unsuccessful. Its ungraceful, sounds murky, and the whole metaphorical structure does little more than over-complicate a simple idea. AND your spelling is really bad, so bad it makes it hard to even begin the poem. Dont worry about copyrighting your poems, you should worry about mastering the basics of a successful poem first. Read some good contemporary poets NOW! Id suggest someone like Billy Collins, who is graceful, deceptively simple on the surface, but complex underneath. Good luck. Snob

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    • Lamont Palmer (8/15/2005 1:12:00 AM) Post reply

      Snob, I can assure you, I am no one other than Lamont Palmer. My ego would not allow me to masquerade as someone else; not even for laughs.

    • Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/14/2005 6:19:00 PM) Post reply

      I struggled through the poem Justice (some of the spelling must have been fixed) and see a real possibility to turn this into a great poem. I think the author lost track of his thoughts somewhere in ... more

  • Michael Shepherd (8/14/2005 10:45:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Right, class, back to your desks and pay attention, put those snaps of your Poetry Camp away especially the one you're all sniggering over, and you can take that 'whatever' expression off your face right now, Kolb...

    Have you all read the Hartman book on Free Verse: the Prosody of? I guess you teachers have. It's not deckchair reading - I've given it two afternoons and I'm only up to page 40 of towards 200... it's the sort of book that you need to read if only to find out what someone else (of the few) has made of the territory. It's a scrupulous piece of academics, but if I tell you that Chapter 2 is entitled 'Accentualism, Isochrony, Musical Fallacy'...? There are times when Hartman, bless his little cotton intentions, seems the least appropriate person to take on the job, but hey, someone had to... and he totally disqualifies himself in my eyes/ears, since I wonder if he's ever written verse himself, or talked about what he's talking about, to an actor...nevertheless, essential reading, I'd say, if only to clear the air a bit. He does dispel some loose thinking about metered v. rhythmic v. 'free'. And the bibliography of 110 items could spiral my Amazonian forest of debt... So ipods off, you there, and take out your electronic notebooks...and no, I won't precis it for you, you lazy laid-backs...

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    • Max Reif (8/14/2005 11:48:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      I just broke down & ordered the book last night. The library wanted &5 to process an interlibrary loan, and I could buy it for 10 without leaving home. Those chapter titles are scary, though, Michael ... more

  • Maty Grosman (8/14/2005 12:11:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    I wouldn't like to take part in any of your personal disputes...
    My only concern is not to find my work, or bits of it, scattered around the web under different names.

    It is a general concern and not related personally to anyone (I hope it won't be..)
    As for your personal affairs, I must admit that as a new member, I find rather amusing then discouraging. But, as I said, that is none of my business.

    Maty.

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    • Michael Shepherd (8/14/2005 6:18:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      Sorry, hadn't read your previous post about copyright.

    • Michael Shepherd (8/14/2005 5:46:00 AM) Post reply

      Maty matey, I don't blame you... and of course it's your business if you want to make it that... but I'm puzzled about 'scattered around the web'. Maybe I misunderstand you; but multiple tags and pe ... more

  • allan james saywell (8/13/2005 11:01:00 PM) Post reply

    i dont know maty we cant even protect it from lunatics

  • Maty Grosman (8/13/2005 9:21:00 PM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    Does anyone know if this site is copyright protected?

    Replies for this message:
    • Maty Grosman (8/14/2005 10:33:00 AM) Post reply

      Thank you both for the information.

    • Michael Shepherd (8/14/2005 6:07:00 AM) Post reply

      Maty, there's a rubric on this in the Help! section, saying you still hold it. But of course that doesn't mean they would defend it themselves?

    • Max Reif (8/13/2005 11:41:00 PM) Post reply

      Dear Maty, My understanding is that if a writer identifies his/her work by putting the copyright symbol, a c with a circle around it-or I think just writing out the words 'copyright 2005 (or whateve ... more

  • Max Reif (8/13/2005 9:16:00 AM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    All's I can say is, I'm glad you guys like to have fun, when you're not viciously slamming one another!

    (And I'd *wondered* what a Poetry Slam was!) : -)

    Replies for this message:
    • Michael Shepherd (8/14/2005 6:05:00 AM) Post reply

      We're into 'laugh-at-yourself' therapy, MAx... just the thought of a rumble in the jungle did it... who know, it might even improve some people's po.... oh never mind...

    • Michael Shepherd (8/13/2005 10:58:00 AM) Post reply

      You said it, Gonzilla...

    • Michael Shepherd (8/13/2005 10:23:00 AM) Post reply

      Remember the quote from Dame Edith Sitwell - 'COSY? ! Cosy as a nest of vipers...'

  • Max Reif (8/12/2005 10:27:00 PM) Post reply | Read 4 replies

    Here's the place I booked, with a separate room for Lamont.

    www.extraholidays.com/resort_details.asp? resortID=78&name=Fairfield_Berkshires_at_Bentley_Brook_Mountain_Club

    Do you think we need something more rustic?

    Replies for this message:

    To read all of 4 replies click here
  • Max Reif (8/12/2005 6:20:00 PM) Post reply | Read 5 replies

    My wife says we should all go for a retreat together in some New England woods, and rent a writer's cottage.
    Wait minute...
    By a lake, she says...
    Fireplace
    & some wood.
    What say?

    Replies for this message:

    To read all of 5 replies click here
  • Michael Shepherd (8/12/2005 3:40:00 PM) Post reply

    I'm with Mahnaz. There's a world of difference between saying that someone is a 'bad' poet (which tells you more about the one saying it than the one said about) and saying that a poem is a 'bad' poem. Poets can change; poems can't. Sometimes (!) I write what I expect will be a 'bad' poem, partly out of the urge to write something rather than nothing, and partly in the hope that something will emerge in the writing which is unplanned; and this usually teaches me something. I did this the other day, felt rather ashamed of it, then next morning it had a certain interest... even got an interested remark...but panned or praised, I wouldn't have been satisfied with it. Perhaps the difference between 'bad' poem and unsuccessful poem is between a pretentious attempt to 'manufacture' a poem, and a well-intentioned one that doesn't come off. That sort of poem is worth consideration.
    Point I'm making: discussion of a poem is usually interesting and useful, discussion of a poet usually not...

  • Poetry Snob (aka Jefferson Carter) (8/12/2005 2:54:00 PM) Post reply

    Lamont, Ive posted a new poem, right down your alley I think. Its a confessional poem, your favorite. I though Id do a Lamont critique first to save the effort of doing one yourself. This piece is anecdotal, prosey, has no music. Its not POETRY. LOL Lamont. Yrs, Snob

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